Top solenoid is the fuel shut of solenoid I and is tied to cold start sensor. This is the common one individuals have an issue with and blowing the fuse. If I could post pictures I could post the fuel system and components to help better show what I知 talking about. Any idea how the numbering systems work for the tech manual? There seems to be a two letters followed by 4 numbers that determine the year models it is for.
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John Deere 5103 Starting Issues
- Thread starter KNP2016
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Top solenoid is the fuel shut of solenoid I and is tied to cold start sensor. This is the common one individuals have an issue with and blowing the fuse. If I could post pictures I could post the fuel system and components to help better show what I知 talking about. Any idea how the numbering systems work for the tech manual? There seems to be a two letters followed by 4 numbers that determine the year models it is for.
Have you checked the air cleaner? Maybe the month it sat something got in there. Need air as well as fuel to start. I did once find on a tractor all the fuses looked good, but when I ohm tested them one was bad.
I believe there was a post awhile back that a tractor would not start and the answer was the fuel return line had a problem. Maybe others will comment on this, before you go down this path.
CTM125 is the engine manual. Selectmanuals.com has all the manuals for $29.95.
SelectManuals.com
I believe there was a post awhile back that a tractor would not start and the answer was the fuel return line had a problem. Maybe others will comment on this, before you go down this path.
CTM125 is the engine manual. Selectmanuals.com has all the manuals for $29.95.
SelectManuals.com
Have you checked the air cleaner? Maybe the month it sat something got in there. Need air as well as fuel to start. I did once find on a tractor all the fuses looked good, but when I ohm tested them one was bad.
I believe there was a post awhile back that a tractor would not start and the answer was the fuel return line had a problem. Maybe others will comment on this, before you go down this path.
CTM125 is the engine manual. Selectmanuals.com has all the manuals for $29.95.
SelectManuals.com
Thanks for the reply, I have actually ohm tested every fuse on the tractor and all appears good. I went and got the tech manual online and got some good insight on this. So I believe my issue is that I am not getting any power to the cold start advance on the bottom of the fuel injector. Any idea if the engine would be able to start without getting power to the cold start advance? I'm getting power to the fuel shutoff solenoid and can hear it click. However I am not getting any power to the cold start advance. I did check the air breather and it is good, macro issue is zero fuel out of the injector pump, issue causing that I believe is no power to the cold start advance.
The cold start advance is only needed to advance the timing, when it is cold. As I am sure you have read the temp sensor can just be disconnected. For now just disconnect it. The sensor is ohm based and not voltage. So, I would not expect to see any voltage at that connection.
This was taken out of the CTM manual page 221 of the PDF. Have you tired this.
D - In Area Behind Fuel Injection Pump
If engine will not start after the bleeding procedures described above, continue as follows:
1. Place throttle lever in fast idle position.
2. Using two open-end wrenches, loosen fuel line on at least three nozzles.
3. Turn over engine with starter motor until fuel flows free from bubbles out of loosened fuel nozzle connections.
Retighten connections.
We have the same engine. My tractor just does not have the turbo. Last year, I cleaned the fuel tank and replaced the fuel lines. Before starting I turned off the fuel at the fuel filter. When I was done I filled the tank. Disconnected the fuel line at the filter it took a few seconds, but fuel came out. I reconnected the line, put the throttle half way up and it fired right up. Point is you might check if you have fuel from the tank and should not have a problem, putting things back together. I do recommend having a full tank of fuel.
This was taken out of the CTM manual page 221 of the PDF. Have you tired this.
D - In Area Behind Fuel Injection Pump
If engine will not start after the bleeding procedures described above, continue as follows:
1. Place throttle lever in fast idle position.
2. Using two open-end wrenches, loosen fuel line on at least three nozzles.
3. Turn over engine with starter motor until fuel flows free from bubbles out of loosened fuel nozzle connections.
Retighten connections.
We have the same engine. My tractor just does not have the turbo. Last year, I cleaned the fuel tank and replaced the fuel lines. Before starting I turned off the fuel at the fuel filter. When I was done I filled the tank. Disconnected the fuel line at the filter it took a few seconds, but fuel came out. I reconnected the line, put the throttle half way up and it fired right up. Point is you might check if you have fuel from the tank and should not have a problem, putting things back together. I do recommend having a full tank of fuel.
The cold start advance is only needed to advance the timing, when it is cold. As I am sure you have read the temp sensor can just be disconnected. For now just disconnect it. The sensor is ohm based and not voltage. So, I would not expect to see any voltage at that connection.
This was taken out of the CTM manual page 221 of the PDF. Have you tired this.
D - In Area Behind Fuel Injection Pump
If engine will not start after the bleeding procedures described above, continue as follows:
1. Place throttle lever in fast idle position.
2. Using two open-end wrenches, loosen fuel line on at least three nozzles.
3. Turn over engine with starter motor until fuel flows free from bubbles out of loosened fuel nozzle connections.
Retighten connections.
We have the same engine. My tractor just does not have the turbo. Last year, I cleaned the fuel tank and replaced the fuel lines. Before starting I turned off the fuel at the fuel filter. When I was done I filled the tank. Disconnected the fuel line at the filter it took a few seconds, but fuel came out. I reconnected the line, put the throttle half way up and it fired right up. Point is you might check if you have fuel from the tank and should not have a problem, putting things back together. I do recommend having a full tank of fuel.
So I shouldn't see any voltage down at the cold start advance solenoid? I saw those steps in the tech manual I just bought and will for sure give that a try. I had just cracked one fuel injection line at the pump to see if anything was coming out last week and there was nothing. Before that I cracked all three fuel injector lines above the injectors to see if I was getting anything there and I was not. As for fuel tank and lines, all them look fine and it is full of fuel. I have good fuel going to pump, and into injector pump as well. I just cant get anything out. Tomorrow I'm going to open up the injector cover and inspect the fuel cut off solenoid as I have read that there could be gunk or something in there preventing fuel out. I went to the local John Deere house this morning and without hearing most of what I had to say they seemed to think it was the injector pump, but honestly they were trying to be helpful. It is just hard for me to understand which such low hours and having zero issue before two weeks ago why the injector pump would all of a sudden fail, but its mechanical so I suppose it can.
Since you have the tech manuals, if you look at the starting system page. The cold start advance does not show up. This because there is no voltage there to the best of my knowledge. Did you ask the dealer about this.
When you say you cracked one line, was the key in the run position, so the fuel solenoid was open? Just checking.
If you have to take the injection pump off down the road. Follow the manual, so when you put it back on the timing will be correct.
What did the dealer say about opening the cover? That is not something I would do without some research. Let me know how that goes in case I need that in the future.
When you say you cracked one line, was the key in the run position, so the fuel solenoid was open? Just checking.
If you have to take the injection pump off down the road. Follow the manual, so when you put it back on the timing will be correct.
What did the dealer say about opening the cover? That is not something I would do without some research. Let me know how that goes in case I need that in the future.
Since you have the tech manuals, if you look at the starting system page. The cold start advance does not show up. This because there is no voltage there to the best of my knowledge. Did you ask the dealer about this.
When you say you cracked one line, was the key in the run position, so the fuel solenoid was open? Just checking.
If you have to take the injection pump off down the road. Follow the manual, so when you put it back on the timing will be correct.
What did the dealer say about opening the cover? That is not something I would do without some research. Let me know how that goes in case I need that in the future.
He didn't seem to think it would cause the engine not to start up but didn't say one way or the other if it had voltage. My only thought is with it having a solenoid and having a wiring harness that it would have some kind of voltage to it, to engage the solenoid and open it up, but it could just be a sensor similar to the thermo-switch. I also check the ohms on it and it showed that the solenoid itself was good which made me think it conducted voltage. Yes when I cracked the line the key was one and even turned the engine over for a bit to see if I got anything to come out (nothing did). As far as taking the cover off to view the fuel shutoff solenoid. I did not speak with the dealer about this but really at this point all things are pointing towards a new injector pump. I have seen this discussed in various places, so I figure its worth a shot as a last ditch effort. I have tried to see if there's anything out there on youtube showing this but wasn't able to find anything. I have a guy that's a diesel mechanic that is going to come look at it Thursday so I might wait till then to crack it open.
Since you have the tech manuals, if you look at the starting system page. The cold start advance does not show up. This because there is no voltage there to the best of my knowledge. Did you ask the dealer about this.
When you say you cracked one line, was the key in the run position, so the fuel solenoid was open? Just checking.
If you have to take the injection pump off down the road. Follow the manual, so when you put it back on the timing will be correct.
What did the dealer say about opening the cover? That is not something I would do without some research. Let me know how that goes in case I need that in the future.
So I went through the tech manual some more and the cold advance solenoid on the bottom does indeed require voltage. I still don稚 think this is causing the not starting issue but rather a part of the problem. It looks like the power supply comes from the top of the fuel shut off solenoid. But from the negative terminal as I have power coming to it, but not making it down to the bottom solenoid. Would it make since that I知 not getting power because my fuel shut off solenoid isn稚 opening all the way? I feel like my issue is in some form of obstruction in the fuel shutoff solenoid which is causing me not to get any fuel out of my injector pump.
Btw thanks for all the help and advice.
CoyPatton
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By not getting fuel out of the injection pump (IP) but getting fuel to the IP, I would check out the safety switch circuits. My opinion is that those circuits may cut off the fuel flow.
There will be several switches in the circuit! To name a few seat, clutch, PTO, ....
Good luck
There will be several switches in the circuit! To name a few seat, clutch, PTO, ....
Good luck
Hey guys just wanted to provide an update.
My buddy (diesel mechanic for Cat/Holt and really knows his stuff) came out Tuesday evening to take a look at the tractor. Went through everything and he really couldn't find a reason why we couldn't get fuel out of the injector pump. He started from scratch and primed the fuel system up again and still even while cranking couldn't get fuel out of the IP. Checked power, fuses, fuel lines, fuel filter and safety switches and all appeared well. He was about to open up the top cover to look at the fuel shutoff solenoid, and eventually see in the IP was pumping but said hold up lets try something first. He cracked the injector lines at the injector pump and sprayed some either as I was cranking and it finally started, and we had fuel coming out of the IP. Closed everything back up it started right up and I ran it for about 30 minutes and it ran great. He was really unsure how the system ran out of fuel in the first place and why we couldn't get fuel out of the IP. If it happens again he said to start with replacing the primer pump and go from there. Still somewhat confused with everything but relieved that it wasn't my IP.
Big thanks to everyone for their help.
My buddy (diesel mechanic for Cat/Holt and really knows his stuff) came out Tuesday evening to take a look at the tractor. Went through everything and he really couldn't find a reason why we couldn't get fuel out of the injector pump. He started from scratch and primed the fuel system up again and still even while cranking couldn't get fuel out of the IP. Checked power, fuses, fuel lines, fuel filter and safety switches and all appeared well. He was about to open up the top cover to look at the fuel shutoff solenoid, and eventually see in the IP was pumping but said hold up lets try something first. He cracked the injector lines at the injector pump and sprayed some either as I was cranking and it finally started, and we had fuel coming out of the IP. Closed everything back up it started right up and I ran it for about 30 minutes and it ran great. He was really unsure how the system ran out of fuel in the first place and why we couldn't get fuel out of the IP. If it happens again he said to start with replacing the primer pump and go from there. Still somewhat confused with everything but relieved that it wasn't my IP.
Big thanks to everyone for their help.