JD 5103, 5203, 5303

cowboydoc · Jun 26, 2003

Tim,

I totally agree with you but most everything is only assembled here anymore. I'm pretty sure the engine on the 5205 is foreign as well. Mostly things are put together here. Some of the bigger stuff is made here and the balers and others things are. But most of these smaller tractors for the most part are just assembled here. The way I look at it most of the money on these tractors is corporate profit and dealer profit so at least that money is going back to the US. Other than that I don't know what to do about it. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

rancar · Jun 26, 2003

Gonna come down to what my mix of chores are really gonna be (versus what I'd like to dream about doing). Once you start down that slope the 05 and 03 series are very interesting as well.

Yep.....I was in this position myself....wrestling with which model to purchase. In my case, the deciding factor was could the tractor fit in my garage or barn buildings. The 4710 could /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.....the others (however desirable they were) couldn't. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

...Bob

timb · Jun 26, 2003

( In my case, the deciding factor was could the tractor fit in my garage or barn buildings. )

LOL! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif This very past weekend I was measuring once again the current "tractor" bay on the end of the barn just to check (and compare to the old NAA that's in there now).

As long as I get a folding ROPS and don't spread the wheels too wide on the 5000's any of them will fit without mods to the bay. (The bay's about 9 x 16 feet, 80" sliding door opening is the limiting height factor).

No easy choices - but I guess great that there are so many!

cowboydoc · Jun 26, 2003

If you were looking at this tractor as your only one Tim I wouldn't go with it. It's a very good tractor for what I'm going to use it for I think but if it's your only tractor it lacks alot of the features that I really like. If this was my only tractor no doubt I would go up to the 5205 with mfwd, power reverser, etc.

rancar · Jun 26, 2003

Tim...

Measure that vertical exhaust pipe on the 5000 series tractors. This was the constraint in my case, not the ROPS or the tractor width. That little pipe would have smacked right into the top of the door jamb. Maybe I could have thought how to modify that pipe but the thought never occurred to me at the time. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

...Bob

timb · Jun 26, 2003

Having nothing better to do (this season) tractor-wise I've been anally comparing minute detail differences between the 4's and 5's. I get the sense that there's a lot more of that "old-fashioned" tractor design approach in the 5's (wet cylinder liners come to mind). The ability (on the MFWD) to set both front and rear tread widths. I've also compared the suggested front ballast for running, say, an MX6 brush hog to get a feel for how well these different series can sling a "medium" sized implement around. While the 944-lb MX6 is right up at the limit of what a MFWD 4710 can "safely" handle (by the book taking 10 of 12 possible 70 lb weights) - an MFWD 5220 (not really physically that much bigger) does not require any extra front end weight for that same mower. (The 2wd version does spec for 400lb of weight). But then I worry that the 5xxx might be too big for some jobs. Some of that issue I eliminated by deciding to use a big garden tractor for lawn mowing.

The wife's getting tired watching me pour over brochures by night and measure clearances around the farm by day!

(Actually that's strategy - when she finally says (and she will) "Would you just go buy the stupid tractor already!!!" - I'm not going to let the door hit me on the way out to the dealer! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

Tim

timb · Jun 26, 2003

The vertical exhaust is a pain for now - I figure I'll have to buy the optional horizontal bits for now. Unfortunately - you can't use the horizontal exhaust with the backhoe. Not that that is likely to be a problem any time soon.

This bay needs rebuilt (might happen this year) and a new larger barn is in the plans down the road so even that height might not be too much an issue. If I modify the door and header there is sufficient clearance in the shed even now for the vertical exhaust.

timb · Jun 26, 2003

Unless the bonus situation at work next spring is a lot better than it's been the past few years /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif it's most likely going to be a reverser MFWD 4710 or a 2wd 5220 reverser (especially with the "540E" PTO). There's a lot to like on both.

Actually, even the '03's are a huge improvement over the only running tractor there now - that '53 NAA! But I think I'd really like a more flexible/friendly tranny than the '03s.

One of the issues we have now though is getting into/out of the woods (fairly steep trails) - the MFWD would be a monster step up there.

Ideally I'd get something smaller with MFWD (possibly even a mid-sized CUT) and something in a 60-ish PTO hp size but that's really tough to justify, even with used equipment. Keep trying to find that magic one-size-fits-all.

Tim

JohnMiller3 · Jun 26, 2003

... even the '03's are a huge improvement over the only running tractor there now - that '53 NAA!... 

I think, anyone would be hard pressed to find even a Mahindra, Kioti, Long, MF, or any somewhat "known name brand" 55 PTO hp, Turbo Charged Utility tractor with these hydraulics, and a 1 ton capacity loader attached for $16,400...

This just so happens to also have a JD Logo pasted on the sides, and painted with JD green/yellow paint... I guess it wouldn't matter if it was made on the MOON... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

timb · Jun 26, 2003

One thing that might concern me would be this line being "orphaned" down the road if it doesn't fly - since these appear to be a new card from the deck. JD seems pretty darn good at keeping parts inventory around - but even better would be if the '03's shared any major compenents with other lines. Any decent amount of "cross-over" here? (I guess that goes for the '05's as well for that matter.)

rancar · Jun 26, 2003

Tim...

"...I've also compared the suggested front ballast for running, say, an MX6 brush hog to get a feel for how well these different series can sling a "medium" sized implement around. While the 944-lb MX6 is right up at the limit of what a MFWD 4710 can "safely" handle..." 

Are you getting the 460 FEL if you get the 4710? If so, that goes as 800lbs+ of additional front weight. I've run my MX6 attached to my 4710 with FEL attached and there doesn't appear to be any noticeable front end 'lightness.' The front/back additional weight ratios seem to be compatible.

"...The wife's getting tired watching me pour over brochures by night and measure clearances around the farm by day!..."

With me, this was 3 years. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Brochures would pop out in the evening, a ton of old printed TBN threads were on the coffee table, and....yep....I too was out there in the field measuring garage door height and the width of trails through the fields and woods. But, it appears you are one step ahead when you suggest your wife is willing to let you go out to "buy the stupid tractor." In my case it was yanking and pulling all the way.....until I suggested how this tractor will really save my poor back and prevent me from becoming a cripple (which really is the truth). She bought into that and it was green lights, full speed ahead, and good to go. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gifBut, after a year she still calls the 4710 'my toy.' /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

...Bob

cowboydoc · Jun 26, 2003

I agree with Bob Tim. I run an 8' Woods rotary mower on my 4600 and have never had a problem with the front end. I also leave my loader on.

Bob,

"I suggested how this tractor will really save my poor back and prevent me from becoming a cripple (which really is the truth)"

You are sure right it's the truth!!! I about killed myself before I had some good equipment. A good tractor on an acreage is worth it's weight in gold. Not only for the good old back but the time one saves pays for itself as well.

timb · Jun 26, 2003

Absolutely will get a loader with whatever I get - and that 800lb 460 sounds like just what the doctor (JD not cowboydoc) ordered to offset the MX6!. But I was just using that as a comparison between the series to judge relative implement handling - with or without the FEL mounted.

Speaking of which - from some of the JD info it seems like the 521 is the only loader for the 05's, but is only used on 2wd 5x20's? If I read it right you have to go to the 541 for the MFWD 5x20's (optional for the 2wd versions.)

Not sure there is really going to be too much difference from the 4710 to the 5220 in the woods - the widths are similar enough, very few tight turns that will make or break one over the other fitting or not. The conflict is going to be the ROPS height - (and operators face) over the NAA. That's going to mean some pruning here and there for sure.

Anyone ever see anything to help calculate the specific ground contact area (and subsequent pressure) on different ag tire sizes? One thing I've tried to think through is the relative "damage" one of the "small" ags might do compared to a CUT - and compare them all to the 2wd 3600 lb NAA (2850+loaded 12.4-28 rears) running around now. Near as I can make out - any of the "5xxx" (with any of the available tire sizes) - unfilled - would tread more lightly than the NAA, as would the 4710, filled or unfilled.

On the other hand the big 10K+ lb plus IH 986 used by a neighbor to bale there now tends to leave it's marks behind unless it's bone dry.

Just trying to get a feel for things! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

(...and my wife will probably "let" me buy anything I really think we need as long as its GREEN ! ...not that she's from a JD family, she just likes green!)

cowboydoc · Jun 26, 2003

You're definitely right about compaction Tim. That's why I use the 4600 so much. Also the reason I went with Gator over any of the other utility vehicles. The compaction is very minimal. I'm not sure of anything that shows this. 5030 was supposed to have an article from MSU on the impaction rates of different size tractors but he hasn't gotten it yet. If you read the setup and procedures in this I'm sure that there would be something there on this.

Golfgar4 · Jun 26, 2003

( But, after a year she still calls the 4710 'my toy.'
)

Come on Bob - let's be honest. So do you, right!? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

timb · Jun 26, 2003

I guessed ground pressure based on overall weight times guestimated front/rear balance as recommended for 2wd and MFWD tractors, plus calcium tire fill (if used) divided by the tire widths. A real wingshot and not quite right without the actual contact patch area at normal tire pressure but I'm guessing it got me in the ballpark. The 5 series ended up about 10% less than the NAA without fill and about 15% more with. All guesses anyway.

One of the long-term projects I'd like to tackle is using a (single shank no doubt with these size tractors) subsoiler to relieve a lttle what has to be decades of compaction since the bigger tractors moved in. One of the reasons I'm leaning away from a hydro tranny. I'm sure I can't do a 100% job with this equipment but I'm hoping it may help - particularly where I want to put in fruit trees.

JackIL · Jun 26, 2003

A little background information on the 03 tractors. I am retired from JD but recently helped present information on these and other small JD tractors to dealers and customers in the Midwest.

Over 90% of the parts in the 5x03 series tractors are common to other 5000 series tractors. In fact the 5x03s are basically the same as the previous 5010 series but just stripped to the most basic features with a few minor changes such as the steel fenders. All 5xxx tractors are designed at Deere facilities in either Waterloo, IA, or Augusta, GA. They are manufactured in a variety of places. The 03s are manufactured in a new clean and modern Deere plant in India where a substantial part of the market for 03 type tractors is located. Most importantly, these are John Deere tractors designed, manufactured, sold, serviced, and backed by the John Deere organization. They are not "orphans" and most likely will be in service worldwide for many years to come.

One slight correction as to the loader and SCVs on 5x03s. With a loader attached only one rear SCV can be installed in addition to the dual SCV on the loader frame. If the tractor does not have a loader then 2 SCVs can be mounted on the rear.

JackIL

cowboydoc · Jun 26, 2003

Hi Jack,

Haven't heard from you much lately. Thanks for the info. on the 03's.

cowboydoc · Jun 26, 2003

John,

Dealer called with another proposition. Seems he just traded for a 99 5510 with synchro transmission and 520 loader, 3 scv's, telescoping draft links, and 2400 hours. Says I can have this one with brand new tires and a hay spear for the loader for $21k. How good of a deal is that? Thanks.

cowboydoc · Jul 14, 2003

Well after pouring over everything a couple hundred times and changing my mind numerous times, and order, I finally decided to pull the trigger on a 5420, MFWD, with a cab. This tractor will let me run most everything, baler, mower conditioner, planter, etc. More than I wanted to spend but instead of just having a tractor to move bales and such I'll have a tractor that can do everything. That cab will sure come in nice on those hot humid days and in the frigid cold!!