JD 5065M newbie with cold weather start problems - advice needed.

[tmac196]

New to me is my 2012 5065M. I just had it delivered from the sales broker 3 weeks ago. It operated well until today when I attempted to start in unseasonably cold temperatures (-13F). The tractor is stored in and enclosed and unheated shelter. The are currently no sources of heat for the block or the crankcase.

There are glow plugs and using the advice of the Operator's manual, I turned the key to the run position and waited for the audible beep to stop. Following this period the Engine Information indicator and the Service Alert indicator lights flash for a few seconds and only when they go off can I crank the starter. Throttle was set at 1/3rd max. power (per manual), but no ignition occurred. I used starter for no more than 20 secs. (again, per the manual) waited for 2 minutes, cranked again, no dice, repeat..Finally used my Schumaker SE-4020 Battery Charger/Engine Starter at the 12V/200 amp start function and had the engine come to life.

It ran very roughly and died on it'd own after 20 secs. Restart resulted in a run for 3-4 mins at idle and then the audible beeping indicator, Service Information indicator and the Engine Information indicator all come on incessantly so I shut the engine off. Waited 5 minutes then restarted the engine and had the same problem recur. During this period of engine running, there is no response to the throttle. The engine runs at rather low RPMs and never seemed to "warm up".

Some background: This tractor sat at the broker for 6 mos. before the sale to me and had fuel in it from this past spring. I topped off the tank with fresh diesel (with winter additive) last week, but only put 2-3 gallons in to do so. Could I have a fuel gelling problem? How do I tell?

I will open the stopcock at the bottom of the fuel filter and let you know what comes out.

Any other thoughts about what could be causing my problem?

Is this normal diesel behavior in cold weather? Somehow I doubt it as Semi trucks don't behave this way.

tmac

 

[CobyRupert]

Hello, I am a newbie too when it comes to diesels in the winter. I ran into a similar problem on Sunday (when it was +20F!)(and I used "winter blend" fuel I bought at the local Hess Station!).

Sounds like you definitely have fuel gelling problem.
This is what I've learned in the past few days (and other readers please correct me if I'm wrong):

1. Never, never, never trust that the "winterized" fuel you buy is sufficiently treated and will not gel.
2. Repeat: Never, never, never trust that the "winterized" fuel you buy is sufficiently treated and will not gel.

3. Normal summer diesel is also known No.2 Diesel. (I'm not sure, but I think this is the same thing as No.2 Fuel Oil. However, "diesel" may have some lubrication in it whereas "fuel oil" might not- Not sure about that though). No. 2 has higher btu's (energy), but gels at higher temperatures.
4. No.1 diesel is more suitable for for winter temperature. As I understand it, No.1 is very similar to kerosene, but kerosene does not have the fuel pump system lubricates that No.1 diesel does. Typically the winterized diesel you buy is a winter mixture of No.1 & No.2. However if the distributor gambles on the mix ratio, or is cheap, or you put November mix into a Jan tractor, etc..; you lose. (See Rule #1 & #2.) Some people here cut their diesel with kerosene 30% or 50/50 depending on the temperature. However given that modern low sulfur No.2 has less lubricant than diesel fuel of the old days, this is not recommended, or perhaps a diesel additvie should also be used to provide the necessary lubricant.
5. Instead of manually mixing No.1/No.2, or No.2/kerosene, etc...I gather that most people here treat whatever diesel they buy with an anti-gel treatment (with lubricant and cetane boost - The White Bottle).
6. When diesel gels, a waxy paraffin substance "gels" and clogs the filter. Opinions differ , but some say : 1) replace filter, or 2) Buy a product called Diesel-911 which dissolves the wax and either: a) Put it in tank and run through system, b) Remove and soak the fuel filter in it and reinstall, or c) Do both.
Seems like opinions differ, but some say wax won't dissolve, without Diesel 911, unless temps are over 100F (use blow dryer, etc..).

 

[Dr_Zinj]

Haven't had any gelling problems here. Temps have been down to -5 F. Battery is only 2 years old and I turn the block heater on about an hour before I need to use the tractor. Starts up the first time no problem every time.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

You need a block heater you also need to use the air charge heater(Grid heater or whatever JD calls it) and USE THEM. It will make it much easier to start your tractor as long the fuel isn't a problem.

 

[JD5210]

As others have indicated your fuel may not be wintered.

You went into detail, but did not mention this, which was taken from the operators manual - If engine runs rough, press in on key to reactivate cold weather starting device until engine runs smoothly. -

You may want to do this, it was taken from the maintenance manual - Raise hood and open fuel filter/water separator drain (B) and drain (C) of glass bowl (if equipped) to bleed accumulated moisture and sediment from filter. Tighten drain when clear fuel runs from drain.- I would see, if fuel is coming out here as well.

Operators manual
http://manuals.deere.com/omview/OMSJ10032_19/?tM=FR

Maintenance manual
OMSJ10033

I have been using JD fuel conditioner, here some info on it. I start using the winter conditioner the end of Sept that way by Dec all fuel is conditioned. It was only 2 this morning and my fuel was fine.

jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/document/english/pmac/5496_fb_SummerWinterDieselConditioner.htm

 

[sunnyside360]

Have had exactly same trouble. Believe it or not I put my warm hands around the fuel filter for a few mins and engine started right up. Only proves what the problem really is, i.e., fuel gelling/wax in filter obstructing passage of fuel. Coby described something similar in above post #2. Hence, I use diesel fuel additive year around (Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement with Cetane Boost). Have never had that issue again.

Suspect that if you add/mix this additive with fuel in your tank, replace or clean fuel filter, engine will run fine.

 

[MattLynch]

Normal for a cold engine to run rough for a minute or two. I always keep mine plugged in but I have started it at -30 with no block heater when the power was out. I don't use any fuel additives but our winter fuel may be a bit more "winterized" in Canada.
If you can't plug it in and need to run it in the cold often get an intake pre-heater, it will help but nowhere near as good as a block heater.

 

[MattLynch]

It is also common to mix a small amount of gas with diesel in extreme cold(less then 10 percent). I also see people heat oil pans, hydralics and diffs with a torch or large heater, but I don't think it will ever get that cold where you are

 

[tmac196]

JD5210,

The system for cold starts that you are referencing came on tractors prior to mine. The manual you reference is older than my manual (2009 vs. 2011) thus there is no function to push in the key to activate the glow plugs anymore. My newer ignition process is as I have described to you in my OP is different and the language about pushing and holding the key into the ignition socket has been stricken from my manual.

tmac

As others have indicated your fuel may not be wintered.

You went into detail, but did not mention this, which was taken from the operators manual - If engine runs rough, press in on key to reactivate cold weather starting device until engine runs smoothly. -

You may want to do this, it was taken from the maintenance manual - Raise hood and open fuel filter/water separator drain (B) and drain (C) of glass bowl (if equipped) to bleed accumulated moisture and sediment from filter. Tighten drain when clear fuel runs from drain.- I would see, if fuel is coming out here as well.

Operators manual
http://manuals.deere.com/omview/OMSJ10032_19/?tM=FR

Maintenance manual
OMSJ10033

I have been using JD fuel conditioner, here some info on it. I start using the winter conditioner the end of Sept that way by Dec all fuel is conditioned. It was only 2 this morning and my fuel was fine.

jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/document/english/pmac/5496_fb_SummerWinterDieselConditioner.htm

 

[tmac196]

Tonight I opened the valve at the bottom of the fuel filter and pure diesel fuel ran out in it's liquid content although I don't know if this proves anything as it is only one point in the fuel system.

I tried to start the tractor again this afternoon and had the same problem recur after a few minutes of running. The temperature in the shed had warmed to -1F. I should note, however that I put over one hour on the tractor moving snow yesterday in similar cold and had no problems whatsoever, so this appears to be a problem which is more than just a cold day.

tmac