JD 2305 wont start

[BrockInCG]

CM, I've never, ever had to do anything other than turn the key on, let it sit for several seconds then crank it and it would run. Cold, hot, rain, dry. That's always worked to start it.

I wouldn't be stunned if there's damage to the injectors or pump based on what the fuel looked like.

Here's where that engine idiot in me comes up...how do I check the glow plugs? IDK even know where they are. I'll do some research and see what happens. Thanks again.

Brock...

 

[Coyote machine]

Is there a glow plug lite that comes on when you turn the key to the first click past the off position? Based on how you usually start it I doubt the glow plugs, if it has them, is the issue. Also, the condition of the fuel in your tank speaks to possible bigger issues. Is there a return line to the fuel tank for excess fuel that isn't going to the injectors? If so, I think you need to verify if fuel is flowing back to the tank when the engine is cranked before going off toward glow plugs, or anything else.
Have someone assist you. Only crank the engine for 15 seconds at a time to not cook the starter, battery, or wires.
Check that the return fuel line is delivering clean new fuel from when you emptied the tank.
Next stop is likely pulling the injectors and having them 'pop' tested for spray pattern and opening pressure.

 

[BrockInCG]

I know the return lines flow fuel back to the tank while pushing the primer lever on the fuel pump. I'll check it while cranking tomorrow. Thanks again.

Brock...

 

[grsthegreat]

is there a fuel shutoff (stop) solenoid on that unit. this is usually right next to and attached to the fuel injector pump. if this isnt operating, the tractor wont fire. it will just turn over.

on my tractor i hear the stop solenoid click rather loudly when the key is turned on

 

[BrockInCG]

There is a fuel shutoff solenoid and I tested it. It seems to function. It pulls on cranking and holds until the key is turned to off. I bench tested it and it functions the same as when on the tractor. Tried to start the tractor while solenoid was removed and nothing new happened.

Brock...

 

[Jerry/MT]

Yes, No & I bled/cracked the injectors like your post above. Just about to set fire to this thing.

Brock...

And you got fuel to the injector's fittings and then tightened the fittings? Are you seeing anything coming out of the exhaust while you are cranking?

Are you keeping the battery charged while you are doing all of this? The starter needs to be cranking the engine pretty strongly.

 

[BrockInCG]

And you got fuel to the injectors and then tightened the fittings? (Diesel is pretty hard to set on fire. How did that happen?)

Yes.

Brock...

 

[Gator6x4]

Read the posts here: http://www.****************.com/forums/sub-compact-utility-tractors-scut/6937-2305-wont-start-3.html. Read all the posts and the steps the poster used to finally diagnose his problem. His solution is on page three of the three page post. Good luck on fixing your tractor.

You will have to create an account and sign in on the site before you can view the photos and diagrams.

Here is what another poster had to say about a motor spins over but no-start problem with a 2305.

"Well after a lot of testing with service manager , come to find out the 3A diode is bad.
Of course none at dealers , $7-8 part tractor has 4 of them just for the heck of it ,ordered 4 even though I only need 1.

I hope when I'm done using tractor in 20 yrs or so I still have the 3 I didn't use ..
Without asking for overnight which is Fri morning it will cost $5.00 more
Well worth the money, since other wise it would be Tues or Wed of next week."

 

[BrockInCG]

I appreciate the effort, however I've seen that thread and used it before posting here. I've found and tested all diodes. They work. Unless there's a super secret diode not listed in the schematics...It's not the issue.

Anyone care for a toasted marshmallow?

Thank you again.

Brock...

 

[Coyote machine]

Status on fuel return line while cranking?
I'm confident your issues are directly related to fuel delivery, or lack thereof.
Lets keep the focus there until all avenues are exhausted, injectors and IP still need to be eliminated as possible causes.

 

[BrockInCG]

Status on fuel return line while cranking?
I'm confident your issues are directly related to fuel delivery, or lack thereof.
Lets keep the focus there until all avenues are exhausted, injectors and IP still need to be eliminated as possible causes.

Fuel flows (quite well) from return line while cranking.
There's good flow to/from filter, to/from IP (including return). Injectors spurt/squirt. There's fuel in return lines of injectors. Battery holds >13.5v, tractor cranks like a champ.

I tend to be quite OK with being a PITA/difficult...this is not one of those occasions though.

Brock...

 

[Coyote machine]

I wasn't implying you are/were being difficult; I was intending to say that it is my opinion that the bad fuel is the cause of your no start condition, and until proven otherwise, things you checked way back; diodes and shut off solenoids are less likely to be relevant.

Now you state the injectors 'spurt/squirt'. They should be putting out a conical spray pattern, no dribbling, dripping or peeing. See this link for specifics. Note what is said toward the end about making a hole in one's piston(s).

Mercedes Benz Diesel Injector spray examples - YouTube

This is what I strongly suspect is happening, bad spray pattern in your injectors, among other possible bad fuel damage.
Can you verify what you are seeing at the injector nozzles, WITHOUT risking breathing or other adverse side effects of the nozzles 'spraying'?

 

[BrockInCG]

Self-deprecation and sarcasm are the cornerstones of my sense of humor. My friends say I have very little sense though so...(of course neither of these translate well into black/white/internets). Totally being a smart *** when saying things like that, 99.999% anyway; see, I can't help myself.

Anywho, back to this freakin' soon to be fire starter (while I'm no engine mechanic...I have a very useful and particular set of skills...), I can do whatever is necessary to check the injectors. I have respirators, face shields, etc if needed. Here's where my lack of experience comes in, again: should I take the hardlines off at the injector pump/fuel pump block and see what sprays up where the hardlines would be if connected, take the hardlines off at the engine block side, or what? I've had the hardlines completely off at the fuel/injector pump side and DEFINITELY didn't see a fine atomization of the fuel. It was a spurt, very wet, not a mist at all. One shot out a bit/tried to mist it, but not so much. I'm happy to do it again and try to video it if needed, but it's going to be a day or two. I have other obligations on tap for today/tonight/tomorrow/most of Sunday.

Thanks again.

Brock...

 

[Coyote machine]

For now what's important is where the fuel exits the injector nozzles at the engine cylinder head. What you're looking for is what the pattern is for all three injectors. In the menatime check into local diesel repair shops in your area that could 'pop' test and set your injectors to the proper spray pattern, AND price out new injectors, and availability of same for comparison purposes.
If you still have your old fuel filter take a close look at it. Is it the 'can' type or just corrugated filter paper style? If paper then you can cut it and open it up and see if there is rust in it or just dirt/debris. Take pics of whatever you find for show and tell later in this saga. What's your address again so I can bill you direct?!:laughing: If there is copius amounts of rust it may have gotten past the filter into the IP. If so, that could spell big $$$. We don't know yet but be prepared. It is possible to rebuild IPs, BUT it depends on the damage level. There might be an internal last stage screen in the pump, but don't get your hopes up on that one. In the meantime, if the injectors are all jammed up it's a fairly likely possibility that the pump is too, but not a certainty, yet.
Do you have a service manual for your beast? If not now might be the time to order one.
Maybe post another thread inquiring about a service manual or diagrams in the JD forum to see if there is any online info available and refer people to this thread to help out with the IP and injector/fuel system workings.
So, what is your specialty skillset? Rocket science? Astronut, olympic bobsledder?

 

[grsthegreat]

i still ask a simple question...have you tried to totally empty the tank and add fresh...from the station... fuel

 

[BrockInCG]

i still ask a simple question...have you tried to totally empty the tank and add fresh...from the station... fuel

Yes, as mentioned in entry #15 in this thread, I drained the old fuel, put in new fuel/filter/etc. I also added ~.5 gallon fresh fuel and drained that before putting new filter in and bleeding. Fuel from the same place I've gotten diesel from for 11 years.

Brock...

 

[grsthegreat]

Yes, as mentioned in entry #15 in this thread, I drained the old fuel, put in new fuel/filter/etc. I also added ~.5 gallon fresh fuel and drained that before putting new filter in and bleeding. Fuel from the same place I've gotten diesel from for 11 years.

Brock...

sorry, i missed that. want me to send you some kindling and matches?

 

[BrockInCG]

sorry, i missed that. want me to send you some kindling and matches?

Ha, I might have to take you up on that!
Thanks for helping. Have a good weekend.

Brock...

 

[Blaneypark]

I have read through all the posts here. I know you have changed the fuel filter, fuel, bleed it off and what ever else you could do. I gave had a few Deere tractors. All had also a Water Seperator Sediment Bowl. Does yours have one? Mine looked like it had moss growing inside it, there for loss of power. Just another idea you to check . Good luck

 

[BrockInCG]

I have read through all the posts here. I know you have changed the fuel filter, fuel, bleed it off and what ever else you could do. I gave had a few Deere tractors. All had also a Water Seperator Sediment Bowl. Does yours have one? Mine looked like it had moss growing inside it, there for loss of power. Just another idea you to check . Good luck

Thank you.
I can not see one if there is one. There's a water "float"/indicator in the fuel filter housing on these...I've not seen a separate separator on it. I'll poke around some more. Been busy cleaning up from our little ice storm and have trail work obligations tomorrow but can dig around to see if I can find one.

Thanks again.

Brock...