JD 216 Starter Problem

[mwood]

Okay all you electrically minded people...

I've got an old (1984 vintage) John Deere 216. It not only serves as my mowing machine but also my snowblower. Recently, I went out to start it and all I hear is a loud click (solenoid) but no cranking.

I'm planning on taking off the starter, but before I fork over any more money I wanted to ask a couple questions:

1. The previous owner (my neighbor) said he replaced the starter about 5 years ago due to a similar problem. 15 years out of the first starter and then only 5 out of the new one???

2. How does one tell if the starter is bad or if it's not getting juice?

Thanks in advance!

MWood

 

[awlchu]

Can you jump start it with your car/truck? If so, look at the battery before digging deeper.

 

[1962]

yea, it does sound like a weak battery or bad connection. ck your batt. then check your batt. terminal connections. clean them up real good at the batt, and solenoid.

 

[Molerj]

To check the starter while it is on the tractor, connect jumper to ground the other to battery & then touch the postitve to the starter bolt (the one with the big wire going to it). The starter should turn over.

 

[tomnky]

And You might do a search as Kubmech made a post concerning a B2400. John Deere has issues on some of the starting circuits and actually has a kit for about $18.00 .

Seems to me some of these had Kawasaki engines.
Just a thought.

Here is a link : Starter problems

 

[mwood]

Thanks for all the great ideas. My first thought was battery so I put the charger on it. Didn't seem to help.

I think the next move is to check to see if the starter works. You mention jumpering from the + side of the battery to the starter post. I'm a little confused about the ground connection you mention.

Also, thanks for the great info regarding the starter relay problem. That very well could be it. If the starter works, i'll get out the multi-meter and see if I can determine how much voltage I've got at the solenoid.

Thanks again and I'll keep you posted!!!

 

[Molerj]

Two jumper cables. One end of one cable hooked to negative post of battery & the other end to frame of tractor. (this eliminates the cable that is presently hooked to battery & ground, just leave it attached as is, no need to remove it). Take the other cable & attach it to positve post of battery & touch the other end to the starter bolt (the one that has a red cable going to it). The starter should turn over. If it doesn't, then problem is in starter. If it does, then problem is other places ie; solenoid, ignition switch, wiring, safety switch etc.

 

[mwood]

Thanks alot!

I checked a few voltages last night. Voltage on the battery is ~12.5 volts.

Voltage at the starter (measured from the starter bolt to ground) was ~8.3 volts.

The battery seemed okay to me, but the voltage at the starter seemed way low. As it is now, I can't get a jumper cable onto the starter bolt without it grounding against the tractor (i'm going to have to remove the battery and some other sheetmetal to get there).

I'll keep everyone informed.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[tomnky]

Was this 8.3 volts on the solenoid? In other words was it the voltage to pull the solenoid " up"? Or was it the actual voltage applied to the starter when the solenoid is pulled " up"?

 

[mwood]

The voltage was measured by measuring from the large bolt (positive) on the starter to the engine ground connection when the key was in the start position (my wife helped here). In other words, the voltage measured zero, my wife turned the key and there was a click, then the voltage measured around 8.3.

Thanks again all! My wife is going out of town in a week or so and I'll be tearing everything apart while she is gone to try to fix this.

 

[tomnky]

I am thinking You need that kit . $17.00 isn't that much and the installation is easy. Most John Deere dealers have them in stock. at least the one here did.

 

[Charlie_in_TX]

12 volts at the battery? Is that trying to crank the starter or at rest? If your battery drops to 8 volts when the starter kicks in you have a bad battery. If your battery holds 11v or so while cranking then it is good. If you have a 4 volt drop from the battery to the starter you have a bad connection or wire. I have seen wires brake between the connectors. Don't assume a wire to be good. Don't assume a connection to be good. Take ALL connections appart, in the primary starting circuit, and clean with sand paper. While the wires are off flex them and feel for a broke wire.

Get it so you have full battery voltage at the starter or you are in for a loooooong trip.

Take a spare battery, like drive your car up next to the mower. Connect the - to the car - and to the mower frame. Connect the + to the car +. When you touch it to the power bolt for the starter, it should spin like a dog with a but itch.

 

[mwood]

</font><font color="blueclass=small">( 12 volts at the battery? Is that trying to crank the starter or at rest? If your battery drops to 8 volts when the starter kicks in you have a bad battery. If your battery holds 11v or so while cranking then it is good. If you have a 4 volt drop from the battery to the starter you have a bad connection or wire. I have seen wires brake between the connectors. Don't assume a wire to be good. Don't assume a connection to be good. Take ALL connections appart, in the primary starting circuit, and clean with sand paper. While the wires are off flex them and feel for a broke wire.)</font>

I was going to check the voltage while trying to crank the starter but I forgot. I'll try that tonight. Also, when my wife is out of town and my honey-do list is short, I was going to take the whole system appart and ohm out all wires to ensure they are good. Cleaning the contacts makes good sense too. In fact, I'll probably replace most of the wiring just to be safe.

</font><font color="blueclass=small">(
Take a spare battery, like drive your car up next to the mower. Connect the - to the car - and to the mower frame. Connect the + to the car +. When you touch it to the power bolt for the starter, it should spin like a dog with a but itch. )</font>

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gifHmm... I've never heard it referred to like that, but I agree. The only problem is this -- I can't fit my jumper cable into the area the starter is without shorting the connection to frame. Too big of a head on the cables. I'm probably going to have to disconnect the battery from the tractor and remove the supports for it as well as some sheet metal to get myself in a working position.

Thanks again for all the help. I'm continually amazed!

ps. I belive this is post number 100 /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif <--- sorry, I just had to

 

[Molerj]

If you follow the wire from the starter back to the solenoid, you can connect your jumper wire to the same place that wire is hooked to the solenoid.

 

[mwood]

Thanks. I was thinking the same thing but that's hard to reach too. I think I'll undo the wire from the soloniod and let it hang out the side of the tractor. That should give me enough to hook to!

 

[kubmech]

Just a thought, can you turn the engine over by hand?

 

[mwood]

Update:

Engine turns over fine by hand. I can't spin it fast enough to actually start it, but the engine is free (not seized).

I went back and measured the voltage accross the battery while engaging the solenoid -- only around 8.3 volts. Looks like the battery is dead. It charged fine when I plugged it on the charger, but that may not really tell the whole story.

So -- since i've been threatened by the wife to get the indoor honey-do list shortened before the outdoor work starts up, I think I'll come back to this in a couple weeks. I don't need my tractor right now anyway since there is probably not going to be anymore significant snow and the lawn is not ready to mow yet (still some snow on the ground).

Thanks again for all the help!