It is the battery - Quick advice please!!!

rbarker · Jan 27, 2004

( Bob...... I am not as old as your grandfather is or would be, but I have heard of dropping the battery. )

I figured if anyone here would have heard of this it would be you. You always amaze me with the diversity of knowledge you display. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

( wrapping the battery with a strand of the small Christmas tree lights and plug them in to warm the battery... Seems like a bright idea, )

A bright idea , huh? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Junkman · Jan 27, 2004

When I lived in NH, I hung around with a older man that I worked for and he had friends that were older than him. I learned a lot of the old timer tricks while sitting around the old wood stove drinking percolated coffee that was only one step below tar. I had bought a 1926 Buick back then and wanted to learn as much about fixing it as I could. Some of these guys were old enough to remember buying them new and one of them still had one that he bought new in his garage. Started to turn a wrench when I was so young that I had to stand on a wooden milk box just to see into the engine compartment. Was very good about getting things apart, but putting them back together took a little longer... maybe till I was about 8 or 9.... I just woke up one morning and realized that I was old, but never realized when it had happened. I remember my father telling about the horse and buggy's that he used to use before a lot of people had cars .... My wife claims that I was born under a fender..... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif I will admit that I am not an "old bird"...... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rowski · Jan 28, 2004

Usually the indicator (green dot) is showing the condition of the cell it is located in. Not the condition of the whole battery. At least in automotive batteries.

r0GuE · Jan 28, 2004

( This Rogue guy has his priorities mixed up. He want s al 'el cheapo battery and drives a Jeep Rubicon. What gives??)

Worse than wanting an el cheapo battery,.. I didn't want to buy a new battery at all. In the past I was pretty fluid with the dollars, but with baby number 3 on the way, and a stay at home mom at the helm, I am learning to be a little more intelligent in how I spend money.

The Rubicon isn't really any more expensive than most mid size cars. In fact, it's much less expensive than most (I got out the door with tax and all for $25k). This was my first American car ever, and to my way of thinking was the most American car I could buy. I've become very jaded against foreign nations now (but that’s another story).

ANYWAY!... The charger did the trick! The tractor started right up and ran like a top! (though it was warmer today). I’m sure removing the corrosion helped too. That baking soda trick worked great. Kind of cool the way it bubbled up.

Thanks to ALL for the EXCELLENT advice. I saved myself ~$50 and was able to push the TONS of snow without a problem. Man are we getting hammered here in PA. We are supposed to get more today and more tonight... and they are talking about a storm coming in later this week! It is very satisfying to see the 5 foot mounds of snow the BX moved sitting in the driveway. By the way, my retired neighbor thanks you all as well, because I have become his driveway man. Do it once and it’s yours for life I guess. Oh well, got to have a few checks on the good side when you’re standing at the gates.

Off to work!

Pks · Jan 28, 2004

Rogue,

Glad to hear things are working properly now. The fact that the baking soda bubbled up when cleaning the battery case tells us that there was some acid present. The baking soda neutralizes the SO4 (battery acid).

If possible, just to be sure everyting is safe, can you visually inspect all 6 sides of the battery case? Your looking for cracks. This idea is just to make certain that the acid you found did not leak through the side of the case. Also look for damaged/pealing/bubbled paint under the battery case.

Oh, one more thought; now that the terminals are real clean, spray them with a battery dressing agent. If you don't have one, put a light coating of vaseline over the metal of the clamps and terminal. But not between the clamp and terminal. The vaseline will prevent future corosion.

During the summer months, consider washing the battery whenever you fill the fuel tank. Grass and dirt will allow voltage to leak out out between the terminals.

Oh and try the dropping technique too. I'd forgotten about that one. Just drop it once, flat on its bottom, on the garage floor. Do this when the case is nice and warm. It does make a difference. Unless there is too much corrosion and the plates short out to the bottom of the case.

Junkman · Jan 28, 2004

Rogue........ don't do the battery dropping or you will have a cracked battery and it will do no good..... battery construction has changed just a tiny bid since the 1920's.... about 2000%!!!! The new batteries don't have any room under the plates to even consider this. You will damage the battery beyond repair. That is why batteries have hold downs now days.... to eliminate the jarring that kills them....
Glad to hear that it worked out for you..

Pks · Jan 28, 2004

Junkman,

Are you certain there's no room at the bottom?

In 1990, I had two 590 CCA batteries that had a ton of room on the bottom. I was able to bring one back to life by repeatedly dropping it lightly on the floor. The case was white and nearly see through; I could easily see the pile of flakes at the bottom. So I then sloshed the flakes to be flat on the bottom. ...worked like a charm!

Maybe the point here is to be careful about our generalities that involve non-standard repair tricks. So I'll retract my statement about dropping the battery lightly on the garage floor.

RalphVa · Jan 28, 2004

Sounds as though your battery may be back to life.

Have some jumper cable handy though.

My experience with cheap batteries (e.g. $10-20 variety) is they're only good for one year. Most batteries are good for 5 years. In fact, I recently replaced 2 that were right at 5 years on my Gravely and on my VW.

I wash all my batteries, in fact my car and tractor engines, with plain water. If there's some significant oil fouling, I'll spray it first with Simple Green, Purple Solution or Orange stuff. Clean batteries won't lose any current across the dirt surface, even if they're wet. Wet dirt will conduct current away though.

Ralph

r0GuE · Jan 28, 2004

Anybody have any info on which batteries are best? I remeber a good oil filter review where the guy cut them open and did some good quantifiable analysis. I wonder if there is any good battery reviews out there.

Junkman · Jan 28, 2004

( Junkman,

Are you certain there's no room at the bottom?

In 1990, I had two 590 CCA batteries that had a ton of room on the bottom. I was able to bring one back to life by repeatedly dropping it lightly on the floor. The case was white and nearly see through; I could easily see the pile of flakes at the bottom. So I then sloshed the flakes to be flat on the bottom. ...worked like a charm!

Maybe the point here is to be careful about our generalities that involve non-standard repair tricks. So I'll retract my statement about dropping the battery lightly on the garage floor. )

You make a good point about generalities... the white plastic cased batteries were / are a better quality battery and they might have had / have a larger area under the plates. Most of the newer black plastic batteries don't have the space, because the plates are manufactured differantly and are made out of differant materials than of the past. This is the reason that they last longer, but when the go, they go all at once. Gel Cell batteries are another type of battery that is coming up in popularity among the manufacturers. I know some, but not a lot about them. Seems that they are the way of the future, just as flashlight batteries have evolved....

TresCrows · Jan 28, 2004

The BX dynamo is probably marginal. Your infrequent use in the winter coupled with the heavy load placed on the battery when starting in the cold has probably kept your battery in a state of semi charge for some time. I doubt that it will fully recover but if you continue to use the trickle charger you will probably get through the winter and maybe all the way to next winter.
I have never gotten more than 3 or 4 years from a battery but that is because I have an adversion to being left sitting in a cold parking lot or having 30,000 dollars worth of tractors that won't start when I need them and that is after all why I bought them so I figure a good battery is cheap--not expensive. That is just me though, I am different. J

TWINKLE_TOES · Jan 28, 2004

If you would like to read the pro's and con's on battery chemistry: flooded cell, Gel cell and aborbed gas mat click here.West Advisor Also many interesting topics (primarily boat related)

r0GuE · Jan 29, 2004

( I doubt that it will fully recover )

The trickle charger I use requires the removal of the terminal nut and then the loop at the end of the charger lead goes over the bolt. It is a pain in the butt compared to allegator clips. I have to run an extention cord from my house to the shed and then I have to leave my shed door open overnight. I was in a frugal mood and was weilling to work for it, BUT, that is a one time shot for me. If it doesn't work again I am going to get a new battery for sure.

Egon · Jan 29, 2004

The battery could move to house and get charged inside where its warm and will take lots more charge.

Egon

cpicton1 · Jan 29, 2004

If you are sure that the battery is the problem then break down and buy a new battery. If you need to use a charger everytime to get it started, buy the new battery. Put an end to your aggravation and replace the battery. Even a cheap one is better than what you have now. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

r0GuE · Jan 29, 2004

/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Well it didn't start again... /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif I removed the battery and went to the local battery place and bought their "house brand" which he said was made by Exide. It is a bigun! Much wider than the original unit. It has 800CCA and 90 Reserve Capacity. The manual calls for 535CCA and 80RC. It started then and I ran it and cleared some snow. I hope to have no more problems for another 3 years. I did the vasoline trick and I also bought a tool that wire brushes the posts and the clamps! Never finish a job without a new tool in the box! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

BTW - The new battery is the kind you can look down the holes and see water. This is the first one I've had that you can do that on. It has 6 or 8 holes, I forget. How full should they be? Also the pos clamp, I could'nt get the whole way down around the post. Probably 1/8 to 1/16" above fully inserted. It is mostly on theough... I'm not too concerned. What an ordeal. I should have just bought the battery. $60 got me a big battery with a 3 year warrantee. And I got it at the local "battery house" (local small bussiness) so I know I can go to them for assistance if it dies early.

Inspector507 · Jan 29, 2004

Rogue,
Good buy.... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The ones with the removable caps MAY lose some fluid now and again. Just make it a part of your maintenance checks.
Maybe you could have spread the clamp a little more to get it down further, but if it was me and I was within 1/8" of it fully seated.......I'd have done the same thing.

RalphVa · Jan 30, 2004

There are usually some rings or partial rings below where the cell water caps screw in (or pop off from). Only fill up to the rings/partial rings. Always use distilled water.

You're lucky that bigger battery fit. On my Gravely, it's very limited where it sits. Can't take any bigger nor any higher battery. That's why I has so much trouble finding one.

Ralph

Egon · Jan 30, 2004

Sometimes you can spread the clamp so it will fit over the post. The clamps are usually of lead and a pliers and screwdriver will usually work. You may also have to scrape a little off the inside of the clamp with a knife.

Just as a word of caution; don't try and pound the clamp on or you may damage battery internals.

Happy startin.

Egon