Is there a *real* service manual for XR series, and what are they selling on the web?

   / Is there a *real* service manual for XR series, and what are they selling on the web? #61  
   / Is there a *real* service manual for XR series, and what are they selling on the web? #62  
Thanks for the info.
I now have a manual for my MT240, disappointed there are no codes included but is a relief to have the manual.
 
   / Is there a *real* service manual for XR series, and what are they selling on the web? #64  
It's not the dealers' fault that LS does not sell service manuals. My dealer verified with LS corporate people that LS does not sell service manuals. There are some available online, but they come from a different company and do not come from LS, so LS knows nothing about them and can't guarantee their accuracy. The dealers look up manuals online on their dealer portal, but have no printed version unless they want to try to print several thousand pages. Don't know if it's possible to load it on a flash drive from the dealer portal, or if they block it because of copyright issues. Maybe the dealer can get in trouble for copying it for people, who knows? There are always changes, corrections, and updates to manuals, so the dealers' online version is always up to date. With a printed version, there could be old obsolete info in it. If anyone needs fault codes that aren't in their book, lots of us members have a fault code list so we can tell you what the code means if you ask.
 
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   / Is there a *real* service manual for XR series, and what are they selling on the web?
  • Thread Starter
#65  
GS650GL said:
It's not the dealers' fault that LS does not sell service manuals. My dealer verified with LS corporate people that LS does not sell service manuals. There are some available online, but they come from a different company and do not come from LS, so LS knows nothing about them and can't guarantee their accuracy. The dealers look up manuals online on their dealer portal, but have no printed version unless they want to try to print several thousand pages. Don't know if it's possible to load it on a flash drive from the dealer portal, or if they block it because of copyright issues. Maybe the dealer can get in trouble for copying it for people, who knows? There are always changes, corrections, and updates to manuals, so the dealers' online version is always up to date. With a printed version, there could be old obsolete info in it. If anyone needs fault codes that aren't in their book, lots of us members have a fault code list so we can tell you what the code means if you ask.
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I'm sure any dealer (who "can't" give manuals for any of the reasons you cited) reading this would appreciate you speaking in their defense but they wouldn't deserve it. They have the manuals in PDF format and could easily email them to anyone who needs them but they rather remain the gatekeepers of knowledge so you are beholden to their service department. I'm not blowing smoke, I know this to be true because I have the PDFs, given to me by LS dealers after I said the right words.
 
   / Is there a *real* service manual for XR series, and what are they selling on the web? #66  
Wow, pretty harsh words. I'm not going to argue about this. Just because they gave them to you does not mean that it was OK for them to do so, or had permission. They are not given to dealers in PDF format, they had to obtain them somewhere and save them in a PDF file for you. Distributing them to customers could be a violation of the dealership standards with the manufacturer. I'm not blowing smoke either, I was a diesel and tractor technician at farm machinery dealerships for 40 years and we were forbidden to give out copies of certain information not because we were "gatekeepers" or wanted everyone to be beholden to us. People are quick to assume that, but there are some things that are out of our control. We would have been happy to give out some info because it would have made our jobs easier and we had more work than we could handle already, but the manufacturer strictly controlled what we could do and we could be fined or lose our dealership by breaking the rules. Part of it is because some information is the property of the engine manufacturer and not the tractor manufacturer. The EPA is also strict on what can be shared to prevent tampering with emissions systems. Part of it is also copyright laws. Whether you have information in a book, on a CD, or on a flash drive, you own those, but the information in them is still the property of the company. Not trying to defend dealerships in any way, there are good ones and bad ones just like anything else. I'm not an LS dealer and I know all dealerships operate differently. I'm just saying that maybe they're not being greedy by not sharing info. Maybe they are just uninformed about it, or are trying to be careful to not get in trouble. Believe what you want.
 
   / Is there a *real* service manual for XR series, and what are they selling on the web?
  • Thread Starter
#67  
GS650GL said:
Wow, pretty harsh words. I'm not going to argue about this. Just because they gave them to you does not mean that it was OK for them to do so, or had permission. They are not given to dealers in PDF format, they had to obtain them somewhere and save them in a PDF file for you. Distributing them to customers could be a violation of the dealership standards with the manufacturer. I'm not blowing smoke either, I was a diesel and tractor technician at farm machinery dealerships for 40 years and we were forbidden to give out copies of certain information not because we were "gatekeepers" or wanted everyone to be beholden to us. People are quick to assume that, but there are some things that are out of our control. We would have been happy to give out some info because it would have made our jobs easier and we had more work than we could handle already, but the manufacturer strictly controlled what we could do and we could be fined or lose our dealership by breaking the rules. Part of it is because some information is the property of the engine manufacturer and not the tractor manufacturer. The EPA is also strict on what can be shared to prevent tampering with emissions systems. Part of it is also copyright laws. Whether you have information in a book, on a CD, or on a flash drive, you own those, but the information in them is still the property of the company. Not trying to defend dealerships in any way, there are good ones and bad ones just like anything else. I'm not an LS dealer and I know all dealerships operate differently. I'm just saying that maybe they're not being greedy by not sharing info. Maybe they are just uninformed about it, or are trying to be careful to not get in trouble. Believe what you want.
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Fair enough, sorry if I was rude. This is a pet peeve of mine and maybe I get carried away. I am very much a proponent of Right to Repair. I deal with gatekeepers on regular basis in my line of work (not related to tractors) and I have heard it from the horse's mouth (not the LS horse) that "if we gave customers access to the information you're asking for then we would go bankrupt. We don't make profit on machine sales, all our profit is in service." That is coming from a European OEM of manufacturing equipment but that business model is becoming predominant even if people don't notice it or want to notice it. John Deere is leading the charge on turning tractors into unserviceable (except by them) equipment and it won't be long before every other tractor manufacturer follows suit. They will all be fully on the bandwagon eventually, baby steps, boiled frog approach. Maybe LS isn't as far onto the bandwagon as I insinuated they are. Yet.
 
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