Is it just me?

   / Is it just me? #1  

Pa Pa Jack

Silver Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2011
Messages
152
Location
Hodges, SC
Tractor
Mahindra 3016
It seems that drill bits have really gotten cheap in the last couple years.

I am doing a lot of work lately on equipment and projects. I am using my drill press a lot more than normal.
I am also going through a lot of drill bits. I have a Drill Doctor and sharpen them as often as needed, but it sure seems that they no longer hold an edge as good as they used to. Anyone else having this problem?

Can anyone recommend good bits and a place to get them? I normally get mine from Enco. In the past they have held up well, but not lately. I had a very old set of Craftsman bits that lasted for years. They have about worn out though. It just seems harder to find quality tools any more. Nobody seems to even carry them.
 
   / Is it just me? #2  
I agree with you on the drill bits. Does your sharpener do a good job? Here is another peeve I ran into recently. Sheared a small bolt off down in a hydraulic pump. Went to auto parts store to get a screw extractor (easy out) and the kid said you will need a left handed drill bit and run your drill in reverse. Ok, give me one of those too. They had a pretty good assortment of drill bits but no left handed bits. I never had heard of one and being in a small town nowhere else to go. I have never seen them I Lowe's before. If you need a special bit to use with the screw extractor why not either package them with the screw extractor or at least stock them.
 
   / Is it just me? #4  
lol a left handed drill bit. you drill the hole then the screw extractor is left hand thread to back out the old
 
   / Is it just me? #5  
I agree that the don't hold up as well. I have had the best luck with Fastenal's drill bits lately. They seem to stay sharp longer.
 
   / Is it just me? #7  
They do make drills with a left hand twist. Industry uses them in some machining operations. Nice to know about, but a pain in the neck when you are teaching kids about which way the drill is supposed to turn. Not necessary when using an easy out though - any twist, left or right hand will make the hole.

As far as the drill quality going down hill, I don't know if the quality dropped or there is just a higher percentage of junk out there now. The quality stuff can be found (Enco and MSC are two suppliers that carry good stuff) but the cheaper stuff is even easier to come across.

I keep my eyes open at yard sales and buy coffee cans of drill bits for a couple of bucks. Often there is some mix of quality, but I always get my moneys worth.

The other thought with sharpening - I have discovered just recently that it is common to run drill bits too fast. This burns them up, takes the hardness out of the cutting edge and makes poor holes and short drill life.

There is a balance between speed (rpm) and feed that optimizes drill life.
If the speed is too fast the bit rubs on the metal, not cutting but creating excess heat which removes the hardness (temper). If the feed into the work is too fast the chip being made is too large, doesn't break off and jams the drill, causing it to break. The chip also plays an important role of taking heat away from the drill Not enough chip, more heat to the drill.

OK, so what is a good feed rate?
With CNC machines they can program feed and speed so the drill does a spiral motion and the rate might be something like .005" feed per revolution. Your chip then would be .005" thick.
We can look at our chip and say "this is too thick, or this is too thin" What we need to see is that we have a good chip and a consistent chip. Consistent chip = consistent feed rate.
Again, how do we know we have a good feed? How about some trial and error?
Since burned bits are from too slow a feed, try feeding a little faster. Oil is always a good addition (it also helps take heat away). Watch your drill on contact - you should get a chip instantly. No chip means the drill isn't sharp. Check for two chips. Two flutes in the drill, both cutting edges should be sharing the load.

Peck with the drill. Pecking (also used in CNC) is drilling a little, then bringing the drill out to clear the chips and allowing an instant of air cooling, drill a little more, clear and cool, a little more, etc. This also breaks the chips so the long stringing chips go away.

Use a pilot hole. On anything over, say 3/8" drill a small pilot hole to start, then follow with the drill of choice. The point on your bit is called a dead center. It is dead (excepting split point drills) because it doesn't cut anything, it is metal plowing into metal. A pilot hole lets that dead center follow the hole and the cutting lips do their thing without excess heat from the center.

Finding a good quality drill? USA on it is a good sign. A fully machined, quality surface is also a good sign. This would be a fine, almost high shine anywhere you look. Machine marks (actually precision grinding marks) should be consistent, uniform and extremely fine. Color might have value - gold plating is an industrial hard finish. gray, shiny metal are normal finishes and black may be good, but flat black may be a sign of cheap imports.

The Drill doctor mentioned above can do a good job sharpening. In my experience most of the other sharpening gadgets are junk. With practice you can learn to sharpen drills "free hand" on a grinding wheel or, better yet, a belt sander. I do it all the time on a Delta 1"x42" belt sander.

Who is this "prolific" writer that is writing all this stuff? Currently I am a machinist/ metal fabricator/welder. Past work has had me teaching college students how to be high school shop teachers that teach metal work.
 
   / Is it just me? #8  
I have to agree about drills being run too fast. Less RPM and more feed is usualy better.

BTW .005 feed per rev. is .0025 chip on a drill with two cutting edges.

And I think you confused spiral with helix.
 
   / Is it just me? #9  
It seems that drill bits have really gotten cheap in the last couple years.

I am doing a lot of work lately on equipment and projects. I am using my drill press a lot more than normal.
I am also going through a lot of drill bits. I have a Drill Doctor and sharpen them as often as needed, but it sure seems that they no longer hold an edge as good as they used to. Anyone else having this problem?

Can anyone recommend good bits and a place to get them? I normally get mine from Enco. In the past they have held up well, but not lately. I had a very old set of Craftsman bits that lasted for years. They have about worn out though. It just seems harder to find quality tools any more. Nobody seems to even carry them.

Even some of the imports from MSC are junk. I have been in industry for over 40 years and some of the drills that were recently received from MSC were a joke. The relief was ground the wrong way, cutting edge angle not equal. You get what you pay for. We finally bought an expensive drill sharpener and now purchase high quality drills and our productivity is way up. Too high speed on high carbon structural steel is the biggest cause of drills not holding up along with improperly ground drill point.
 
   / Is it just me? #10  
Left handed drill bit a plus on broken studs. When you get press releaved sometimes the stud just starts backing out. works great. Left hand bits can be purchased a AIM in largo Fl. I'm not a rep but I do buy from them. Great bunch of folks.
You are right about speed also. I like to go about 600 RPM to keep from burning bits.
Ease Outs are left hand thread but you don't have to use a left hand drill bit but it does work better if you have one.
 
   / Is it just me? #11  
Mac tools has a drill bit set with a warranty. Screw and bolt extractors also.

Fastenal has more than one grade of drillsand taps, the China made is junk, we received a pack of 3/16 China bits by mistake, the center of the twist was so thin you could see through sections of the bit, broke instantly.

I have been using a cutting oil in a airisal can , it comes out and is a thick foam, I think it came from Fastenal.
 
   / Is it just me?
  • Thread Starter
#12  
Let me ask another question then. I have to drill 3/4 inch holes through a 1 1/4 inch stock. I only have a drill press that doesn't have a really slow speed. I think 300 rpm's is about the lowest. How should I drill them? what is the best type of bit to drill holes that size?
 
   / Is it just me? #13  
If I recall, my rule of thumb I used to run a 1" bit at 400 rpm for 1020 steel. With my more recent experience I run it much slower.

Remember hole saws? Those cheap metal saws that chewed rough holes in wood and had a wooden plug left over, typically stuck in the hole saw? They now make them specifically for cutting metal. Carbide tipped and precision made they are good, sometimes very good. One of those with a magnet base drill (Milwaukee makes good ones) and you would be likely to have some success.

How many holes?
 
   / Is it just me?
  • Thread Starter
#14  
I am going to have about 16 holes to drill. I have several others, but they are larger and I will probably have them drilled by a machine shop. I asked today what they would charge, and the fees were absurd. I realize they have set-up time, but I know it doesn't take an hour to set up to drill a hole and they are all the same so one set-up time would take care of all of them.
 
   / Is it just me? #15  
Pa Pa Jack, mark your holes with a punch & start with a center drill #3 or #4 and spin it to 800-1000rpm. Go deep enough to get a chamfer from the stepped part & back off when it starts to chatter. Pilot with 1/2" at 450-600rpm and drill thru. Finish with the 3/4" at 300 if that's what you have.

If the parts maneuver easily onto your DP's table, do all holes with each tool/op/speed change. Center up part changes by plunging/holding the bit into each hole before starting the spindle, rotating/wiggling the vise/part back-n-forth a tad and clamping it to the table. Relaxing the feed every few secs will break the chips. Pecking, as advised above, will break & clear them at depth. Dab some cutting oil on with a small brush to keep the drill/hole wet as you go. Last but not least, ignore all this if the parts are too big to muscle around, or if only your two arms are available. :D :2cents:

btw: I'd pop these for you pro bono in a minute on one of the mills, but I doubt either of us would want to pay for shipping. :rolleyes:
 
   / Is it just me? #16  
For good quality drill bits, I bought a set of Consolidated Toledo Drill of Toledo Ohio. Drill Bit Set 29 pc. Black & Gold Magnum (CTD) Reasonable price and I cant count the holes I have drilled and havent had to sharpen any of the bits as of yet. Havent broke one either and I have had them for several years. Seems like I gave about $80 ( I noticed the link I provided shows a little higher price)for a set that goes from ity bity up to 1/2in. I keep this set hid so nobody else uses them. Kids and buddies have a habit of abuseing the drill press, and my bits. They get to use the cheap stuff.

I just got thru drilling some 1in holes, 3 1/2 in deep in some shaft material. I have found that trying to start a hole with a large dia drill bit really makes the bit want to wander, even when chucked in a lathe. I like to start with a 1/8 bit, easier to stay on center, then step up to 1/4in, 1/2, then 3/4 then 1in. Really have to do a lot of peck drilling when going that deep. Backing the drill out and blowing out the holes with air to remove chips. Failure to do so will result in the chips burning up the drill along the flutes and gualding of the holes
 
   / Is it just me? #17  
Papa Jack
This (from the old grind) is the best answer you will get.
remember go slow. as far as good drill bits. any titanum or Carbide is good if you don't burn them. The Titanum is gold in color and the Carbide is black (some call them high speed or bimetal but that is just a referance). The light crome color is junk (no carbide) and all junk don't come from overseas; some junk is made here in the states now and so quality tools come from overseas. You just have to know what you are buying before you buy and match quality for application and use. I don't think I would try hole saws bits for 1-1/2" thick metal. I recond it deponds on the hardness of the metal. It would surely work on alum buy not pig iron. I speak from 12 years experience of selling drill bits and hole saws of several name brands and several different grades.
Again Go Slow (travel speed & RPM's) and use pilot hole drill bit first with good quality bits and you will reap good benefits.
 
   / Is it just me? #18  
Don't even consider carbon steel drill bits, unless you are only going to drill soft wood. For drilling steel, High Speed (HS) are the beginning point, next cobalt is a good choice, easily sharpened, and tolerates heat better then any carbon steel bit. Your top choice for most difficult drilled steels is tungsten carbide. They cost more, but for tough to drill applications, they are tops. If you do not have a drill speed and feed chart, get one. Learn that the larger the diameter, the slower the spindle speed (RPM). Charts quite often are given away by drill bit makers, certain sellers, and can be found on the net. Don't forget that if drilling tough or hard materials, a quality coolant/lubricant/ cutting oil is needed. Forget about using engine oil. Fastenal is a good supplier, so is McMaster-Carr which has an amazing selection.
 
   / Is it just me? #19  
Oil is always a good addition (it also helps take heat away).

I would use a fluid meant for drilling and tapping such as Rapid-Tap or TapMagic over oil.

Also, the material you are drilling will have a great impact on how well your bit performs. There are twist bits meant for wood and they will disapoint you if used on even aluminum or A36 steel. Your standard twist bit should be able to handle soft steels, but start drilling harder metals (SA516 Gr 70 and many others) and you need to match the bit as well as the speed and feed rate to the material.
 
   / Is it just me? #20  
Let me ask another question then. I have to drill 3/4 inch holes through a 1 1/4 inch stock. I only have a drill press that doesn't have a really slow speed. I think 300 rpm's is about the lowest. How should I drill them? what is the best type of bit to drill holes that size?

What is the piece you are drilling? Can you use a Mag-drill or Hougen drill. If the machine shop price is crazy expensive maybe you can justify getting the mag drill. I bought one at a tool auction a couple years ago for less than $500. Paid for itself on that one job in time savings.
 

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