Inverter Welders

   / Inverter Welders #1  

centex

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2002
Messages
431
Location
Lampasas, Texas
Tractor
JD 4700
Have any of you had experience with the new inverter technology welding machines? The machine I am particularly interested in is the Miller Dynasty200 TIG welder. It is about the same price as the Miller Synchrowave250 machine. The biggest difference in the machines is the size and weight. The Dynasty200 weighs only 49# and requires 230V/30A service while the Synchrowave250 weighs almost 400# and requires 230V/100A service which is the same as the old machine I am replacing. There are differences in other specs such as duty cycle and maximum welding current but either machine would fill my requirements.

I would expect the larger machine to perform similarly to my old machine in terms of welding performance and reliability but I don't know what to expect from the smaller machine since it is built around newer technology. If anyone has used this machine or similar inverter technology machines, I would like your feedback on how these machince actually perform in the field.
 
   / Inverter Welders
  • Thread Starter
#2  
I want to add that my first plan was to go to one of the local welding suppliers to get information and to buy a welder. That is what I used to do and I always got good advice and help. Well, the business downturns of the last 10 years or so has put all of the small local welding suppliers out of business and all that is left around here are large chain welding suppliers who staff their counters with the same 18 year old kids that Home Depot does. Most have never actually touched a welding machine and most have difficulty even looking up a price much less knowing anything about the actual machine which they would have to order. I will probably buy from a supplier on the internet because I would save about $700 and would get nothing in return for buying locally except a longer delivery time.

The local businesses went bankrupt because their commercial accounts also went bankrupt and not because of private individuals like me who are an insignificant part of their total business.
 
   / Inverter Welders #3  
Hi centex,

Stop by at this link and search a bit. It is a great site for weldors and you will find lots of info and help.

Hobart welders discussion board

You might also want to look at the Thermal Arc Prowave 185. I wanted to buy the Dynasty 200 DX, but ended up ordering a thermal arc last week since it offered nearly a $1,000 savings when you add in the accessories needed to make the Dynasty a workable package.

Hope this helps...
 
   / Inverter Welders
  • Thread Starter
#4  
Bill, what Thermal Arc machine did you buy and from whom? The only Thermal Arc inverter machines I could find were their Prowave300 and 400. The price I found on the Prowave 300 was over $3000 and it appeared to be just the machine. I can get a Dynasty200 DX for $2260 delivered.
 
   / Inverter Welders #5  
centex,

I ordered a Prowave 185 from AAA Wholesale Welding Supply <aaawelding@adelphia.net>. It was not in stock. I am waiting for it now. They are located in New York State. That was a little over a week ago. I expect to receive it this week.

The price of the Dynasty 200 DX is probably just for the machine. The tig torch and other accessories are sold in a "contractor's kit" for about $500 if I remember right. The prowave package included everything needed except the gas bottle. I paid under $1,700 including shipping to my door.

Probably best to send me a private message if you would like more details...

Hope this helps.
 
   / Inverter Welders #6  
Couple of things need to be said about Thermal Dynamics, the first being that the company is currently operating under Bankruptcy protection, and that needs to be considered before you buy their equipment.
The second thing that needs to be said is the company STINKS on ICE in terms of customer service. The 800 number is at best an exercize in frustration. There is a number you can call at your expense, that will get you thru to a teck, who will FAX you information, but who knows how long that will last.
As the owner of a PAK3-XR, I learned these things after a lot of down time, and agrivation.
Thermal has definitely seen the last dollar of mine they ever will, regardless of how the Bankruptcy turns out.
 
   / Inverter Welders #7  
Hi,

Any warning should be considered carefully!

However, my understanding is that it is not Thermal Dynamics that is in chapter 11, but rather the holding company that owns them and others companies as well. Frequently, if a holding company goes chapter 7, the profitable parts are sold off and continue doing what they do, but owned by someone else. Do I care who owns a company? Not really. This is a valid concern though...

Not sure about the customer service. On my first call to Thermal Arc, I was connected to a service tech who was happy to answer all my questions until I started to feel guilty for keeping him on the line so long. Again, perhaps I just got lucky...I can't remember if it was an 800 number I called or a long distance number. But I guess it was their 800 number...otherwise I would have taken longer to start feeling guilty /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Every vendor has dissatisfied customers. Hope I don't become one!!! Franz...I think I heard your voice on the hobart site. I would certainly advise anyone interested in a Thermal Arc welder to consider your experience carefullyl.

In the end I decided to go thermal arc because others have reported satisfaction with their purchases of this equipment. I hope I don't end up with a bad taste in my mouth after making this decision.

I would suggest anyone considering a thermal arc visit the hobart site and do a search or two on Thermal arc, and come to your own conclusions.

It would have cost me about 50% percent more to buy the Miller dynasty 200dx in a ready-to-weld form. I wanted the miller but could not justify the extra thou...if it had been $500 more I might have went for the miller. If $1,000 is not that important then I would advise anyone to go with the dynasty.

Guess that is how I see it...for what it's worth....
 
   / Inverter Welders #8  
Henro, I wish my satisfaction quotent with Thermal was an isolated event, but it isn't. In my area, I know of several people who have shared similar experiences.
As you say, when manufacturers go belly up, parts of their business are often bought up by other manufacturers, much as we have seen old line manufacturers absorbed into large holding companys in the past few years. A prime example is that Hobart and Miller are both owned by the same holding company. This resulted in Hobart discontinuing support of a lot of older equipment and selling off of several product lines, to satisfy the government. At least 1 of Hobart's lines was sold to Thermal, where it was revised to become compatible with Thermal's design criteria.
We've also seen Homelite go thru being owned by Textron, then John Deer, and now Royobi, and this has left trainloads of Homelite equipment abandoned in terms of service parts.
From my standpoint, with over 40 years of welding under my belt, I don't like it when a machine is no longer supported with replacement parts. I also fail to understand the enfatuation with NEW, and STATE of THE ART welders. I can fire up a 50 year old Purox torch, or a 50 year old P&H machine in my shop and weld with them quite well. I've said it more times than I can count, but, I'll say it again, the weld is made by the weldOr behind the mask, and not the welder he runs. I've still got a Lincoln toumbstone I bought in 1963 that I can lay down a better weld with than a lot of guys can with the new machines.
Things like square wave and inverters are nice, but, machines have to pay for themselves, or they are money down the drain. Miller, Lincoln, Hobart and even Esab, did not design and build machines like the Dynasty series for the home workshop, they were designed and built for production welding, 24/7.
http://www.weldreality.com/default2.htm clearly points out that most of the money expended on fancy machines in industrial situations is wasted, because the people involved in selecting process, and buying machines aren't weldOrs.
For a man operating a small shop, inverters and square wave TIG are overkill, and he will need repair parts down the road. There have already been postings about keypad problems on these machines. From where I sit, I'm fairly confident the manufacturers will have obsoleted these current machines in 5 years with a new generation, and while most of the machines in production situations will be writted off and cost effective to replace, the backyard shop operator and his need for parts support won't be economicly justifiable for the manufacturer to continue making parts for.
Manufacturers like Lincoln, Miller and Hobart, possibly Esab, will be there with parts for 10 years, probably. Thermal, well, if they get sold off, it will be like trying to get parts for your Textron generation Homelite saw.
 
   / Inverter Welders
  • Thread Starter
#9  
I am pretty much sold on Miller as the supplier of choice because they have been around for a long time and I know they make good equipment. I bought Linde machines 20 years ago before Union Carbide sold the company off. I don't want to make that mistake again.

One thing that bugs me is that Miller has gone to a 14 pin connector for the remote control on their TIG machines. The remotes for my Linde TIG machine used standard plugs and jacks that you can buy at a hardware store (I should say could buy at a hardware store since there are not many hardware stores left anymore.) Since you can't buy the 14 pin plug to fit the Miller machine you have to pay them $200 for a foot control that just has a $1.50 switch and $2.00 potentiometer in it. If they used standard connectors I could use my old foot control. I think they sell an adapter with the 14 pin connector on one end and standard connectors on the other for $110. That is the kind of thing that really chaps me.
 
   / Inverter Welders #10  
centrex,

I bought a Maxstar 200DX (which is similar to the Dynasty 200 without AC output) last year. It has been a great welder so far.


The other big differences between the Dynasty 200 and the Synchowave 250 are maximum output power, and input voltage.

The Synchrowave tops out at 310 Amps while the Dynasty 200 tops out at 200 Amps. The Dynasty 300 is closer to the output range of the Synchrowave 250 .

One big advantage of the Dynasty (and Maxstar) welders is the adaptable power input. No manual selection of input power is needed. The welder senses the voltage applied to the power cable and adjusts to use it. With the proper connection of the power input leads you can connect it to any of the common power voltages (115 Volt single phase, 230 V Single phase, 400 V three-phase, or 460 V three-phase). I will never use three-phase power. I wired the welder line cord for a 230 Volt 30 amp twist lock and made adapter cables to convert from that plug to 115V 15 Amp and 230 Volt 20 Amps. Ernie Leimkuhler on rec.crafts.metalworking reported that he wired his line cord with a three phase plug and made additional adapters to convert to the single phase plugs. (Disclaimer: these adapters must be used only with the Dynasty/Maxstar or obvious problems will result.) Maximum welding power from a 115 Volt circuit requires 31 Amps and allows one to weld where only 115 V power is available (at less than maximmum power on a 15 Amp circuit).


There are two sources of information you should look at: The Hobart discussion board, and the newsgroups rec.crafts.metalworking and sci.engr.joining.welding. The Hobart discussion board has already been mentioned. Sci.engr.joining.welding in particular has had a number of messages dealing with the Dynasty 200. The old messages in these newsgroups can be read via google googlr search


One other resopurce. The manuals for all the Miller welders can be downloaded in PDF format from the Miller web site.
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

82" Pallet Fork Extensions, New (A47371)
82" Pallet Fork...
2011 NORMAN POWER SYSTEMS 100KW GENERATOR (A48992)
2011 NORMAN POWER...
2008 Ford Escape XLS SUV (A48082)
2008 Ford Escape...
2 3/8 DRILL PIPE (A48992)
2 3/8 DRILL PIPE...
MILLER CP-302 WELDER (A48992)
MILLER CP-302...
2012 CHEVROLET 3500HD 4X4 TRUCK (A50046)
2012 CHEVROLET...
 
Top