Intimidating Drivers

[Midniteoyl]

Kinda like those people who hate Semi's 'cause truckers 'always intimidate the little car'.

 

[Midniteoyl]

If I had known how much the Prius would wind up bugging a lot of people, I would have bought two of them. That's how I roll.

 

[bcp]

When battery technology reaches the point where quick charge transfers can take place, ...

I don't know why some people think there are still great advancements in batteries yet?

Check recent developments in "ultracapacitors" or 'super capacitors."

From:
MIT Energy Research Council : Research Spotlight

Saying goodbye to batteries

Researchers at MIT are developing a new device that has the potential to hold as much energy as a conventional battery but could be recharged in seconds rather than hours, would last almost indefinitely, and won't mind the cold. The device could prove the first economically viable alternative to today's battery. It could one day yield a practical all-electric car and provide electricity storage critical to using intermittent energy sources such as solar and wind.

=================================
Here are some more:
Bringing Batteries and Capacitors Together

Supercapacitors: The (near-ish) future of batteries | DVICE

 

[aczlan]

Check recent developments in "ultracapacitors" or 'super capacitors."

From:
MIT Energy Research Council : Research Spotlight

Saying goodbye to batteries

Researchers at MIT are developing a new device that has the potential to hold as much energy as a conventional battery but could be recharged in seconds rather than hours, would last almost indefinitely, and won't mind the cold. The device could prove the first economically viable alternative to today's battery. It could one day yield a practical all-electric car and provide electricity storage critical to using intermittent energy sources such as solar and wind.

=================================
Here are some more:
Bringing Batteries and Capacitors Together

Supercapacitors: The (near-ish) future of batteries | DVICE

Just dont get into an accident and short out your supercap... It could produce a "bang" that would put a movie gas tank explosion to shame.

Aaron Z

 

[buickanddeere]

Check recent developments in "ultracapacitors" or 'super capacitors."

From:
MIT Energy Research Council : Research Spotlight

Saying goodbye to batteries

Researchers at MIT are developing a new device that has the potential to hold as much energy as a conventional battery but could be recharged in seconds rather than hours, would last almost indefinitely, and won't mind the cold. The device could prove the first economically viable alternative to today's battery. It could one day yield a practical all-electric car and provide electricity storage critical to using intermittent energy sources such as solar and wind.

=================================
Here are some more:
Bringing Batteries and Capacitors Together

Supercapacitors: The (near-ish) future of batteries | DVICE

Great if they work, last and are affordable. Time will tell.

 

[houstonscott]

Ill buy electric when range is over 600miles charge time is under 5 mins and batteries weight are well under 100lbs and last for 500k miles and costs are same or less than high pressure diesel and the acid bath I might have to take in an accident and creat a super fund site not counting burning my house down when it recharges are solved.

HS

 

[MossRoad]

While you're at it why don't you eat some food from lead cans.... that was cutting edge tech, too, in its day.

 

[dave1949]

Quote Originally Posted by dave1949 View Post
Recaptured energy (regenerative braking) is energy too, it just isn't being 100% wasted in the form of heat dissipation.

The ultimate clean and cheap energy source is the sun. When battery technology reaches the point where quick charge transfers can take place, higher storage capacity, etc., batteries charged from solar panels or wind turbines will convert solar energy to motive energy. Battery research and development is not standing still, the costs of climate change are driving this effort, however indirectly.

It is short-sighted to assume that batteries are, or can be, only charged by burning a fossil fuel somewhere other than in an engine. It just ain't so. At current solar PV prices, it is easy to achieve equivalent fuel costs of 50 mpg in an EV. The technology is not even half-mature yet.

*************************************************************************************

I don't know why some people think there are still great advancements in batteries yet? There is a max amount of energy that a battery can store per pound of battery and that is it. There is no way to engineer a battery to do the equivalent of pouring 25 gallons of gasoline into a 5 gallon tank.
Rapid charging and rapid discharge is limited by heat. Forget about low cost reliable battery banks that can be rapid charged in the time it takes to pump 20 gallons of gasoline.
Don't go thinking there are technological breakthroughs in solar panels just around the corner either. 10 square ft of solar panels flat on a car roof isn't going to charge very much either. Ever look at the dismal performance of the light weight solar go-karts the students build for cross country races.
Solar panels and wind turbines? Obviously the eco renewable energy wizards do not ask about the impact of solar and wind turbines on the national power grid. Last time I checked people drive in the daytime and park at night. Where is your solar charging? Wind power is unreliable and must be backed up with gas, coal or hydro-electric.
An electric car owned and used by a well paid engineer who owns tools,resides on a rural estate having solar panels and a wind turbine is one thing. Joe above average $45hr living in a small town or city is another matter with an eco vehicle is another. Then there is Joe average $25hr living in rural areas and must travel longer distances on lower quality roads.
If you want clean energy. Use abundant natural gas and convert it to methanol via nuclear steam.

Battery research is continuing.
New rechargeable flow battery could enable cheaper, more efficient energy storage

High storage capacity and quick charge transfers would allow power to be accumulated at your home in the daytime from solar, then transferred to your EV at night. The ability to store and transfer power from batteries, or another storage device, uncouples the "drive during the daytime" problem.

This isn't a cross-country go-kart race; it's people using their vehicles on a fairly predictable schedule. Sure, there will good and bad solar or wind production days.

The same applies to wind turbines. They do make power, sometimes so much they must be derated because the grid cannot use it all. If that power can be efficiently stored until needed, then it is much more usable.

Solar and wind are not "on-demand" sources but they are being coupled to a grid that has always been an on-demand design. We assume that power is available for whatever, whenever, because that's the way it's always been.

Natural gas is not carbon neutral, methane is a very potent greenhouse gas--about 10-15 times more potent than CO2 actually. Unless the case can be made that fracking, blown wells, greenhouse gas, etc. are good for the earth and the things that live upon it, let's cut to the chase and minimize those destructive activities as much as possible.

There are certainly things/uses that will need to rely on fossil fuels well into the future. There are also many electrical loads that can be supplied with solar and wind if we have the technology to do so. That technology is growing every year.

 

[RobertN]

On one of our trips to the bay to sail, a friend drove. They have a Prius. for all the banter about the Jeff Dunham video's etc, I found it was comfortable for the five of us. I'm 6'2"; the 1.5 hours drive was plenty comfortable. And, it was plenty zippy to get up the hills here.

Don't underestimate the acceleration of the Prius. The electric motor has high torque and it kicks in when you put the pedal to the metal and has no problems passing on a hill or on the freeway. The inside room of the Prius is the same as the Camry. It just looks smaller, so it can fit 5 no prob. It is classified as a mid-size sedan, not a compact car (except for the Prius C).

 

[RobertN]

As long as topic is drifting...

I found this interesting. I always thought the Allis G was so ugly it was cool...

They are still a popular cultivator for small farms; in fact there is a company making
Tuff-bilt Tractor System - Affordable and Innovative

There are also a few folks that are setting them up all electric. Interesting concept...
Allis Chalmers "G" Electric Cultivating and Seeding Tractor Conversion Project

 

[buickanddeere]

Battery research is continuing.
New rechargeable flow battery could enable cheaper, more efficient energy storage

High storage capacity and quick charge transfers would allow power to be accumulated at your home in the daytime from solar, then transferred to your EV at night. The ability to store and transfer power from batteries, or another storage device, uncouples the "drive during the daytime" problem.

This isn't a cross-country go-kart race; it's people using their vehicles on a fairly predictable schedule. Sure, there will good and bad solar or wind production days.

The same applies to wind turbines. They do make power, sometimes so much they must be derated because the grid cannot use it all. If that power can be efficiently stored until needed, then it is much more usable.

Solar and wind are not "on-demand" sources but they are being coupled to a grid that has always been an on-demand design. We assume that power is available for whatever, whenever, because that's the way it's always been.

Natural gas is not carbon neutral, methane is a very potent greenhouse gas--about 10-15 times more potent than CO2 actually. Unless the case can be made that fracking, blown wells, greenhouse gas, etc. are good for the earth and the things that live upon it, let's cut to the chase and minimize those destructive activities as much as possible.

There are certainly things/uses that will need to rely on fossil fuels well into the future. There are also many electrical loads that can be supplied with solar and wind if we have the technology to do so. That technology is growing every year.

Every time power is transferred into and out of batteries or through convertors/inverter there are efficiency losses.
Unless the typical driver has deep pockets for a Telsa or quantum physics researchers make a break through with antimatter or something. We are stuck with 15-40 mile range electric cars for town and urban drivers to use.
I work in the energy business and I can assure you there is no low cost practical way to store LARGE amounts of energy. Outside of a hydro-electric dam, a pile of coal , natural gas in a pipeline or salt dome of bundles of U235 in a reactor core.

 

[powerpace]

Every time power is transferred into and out of batteries or through convertors/inverter there are efficiency losses.
Unless the typical driver has deep pockets for a Telsa or quantum physics researchers make a break through with antimatter or something. We are stuck with 15-40 mile range electric cars for town and urban drivers to use.
I work in the energy business and I can assure you there is no low cost practical way to store LARGE amounts of energy. Outside of a hydro-electric dam, a pile of coal , natural gas in a pipeline or salt dome of bundles of U235 in a reactor core.

There is no "magic" energy source. The combination of energy sources making the best use of the resources we have is probably going to be the everchanging "norm".

The Prius that I drive is a combination of hydrocarbon use, gravity, "friction", inertia. One model uses sunlight for the airconditioning power.

http://www.bing.com/news/search?q=phone+energy+efficiency&qpvt=phone+energy+efficiency&FORM=EWRE

 

[dave1949]

Every time power is transferred into and out of batteries or through convertors/inverter there are efficiency losses.
Unless the typical driver has deep pockets for a Telsa or quantum physics researchers make a break through with antimatter or something. We are stuck with 15-40 mile range electric cars for town and urban drivers to use.
I work in the energy business and I can assure you there is no low cost practical way to store LARGE amounts of energy. Outside of a hydro-electric dam, a pile of coal , natural gas in a pipeline or salt dome of bundles of U235 in a reactor core.

Oh Ye of little faith,

Technology tends to deliver what is needed or valued--as long as we don't ask for the impossible. Bumping the range of an affordable and practical EV up to 75 or 80 miles doesn't seem impossible to me.

I agree we are a long ways from storing megawatt-scale electric power, other than pumping water up into a reservoir and using that to drive turbines when needed. Very inefficient but one way of using green power, or the off-peak output of a nuclear plant. However, there is much that can be accomplished without that megawatt-scale storage.

Transfer and conversion losses are important, of course, but they are hardly unique to batteries and inverters.

Gas and diesel engines are 30% to 40% efficient for example--and total process-wise, that's after those fuels are in the fuel tank.
Engine efficiency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Consider how much energy is expended to get those fuels in the tank ready to use, add those losses in too. Also consider the embedded energy required to make the equipment that brings those fuels to a usable state. These things apply to all forms and types of energy generation of course. Just cherry picking one facet of losses for comparison will never give the complete picture.

Make comparisons of the downstream costs (waste by-products) too. How much needs to be added to the per-mile fuel costs of a typical vehicle to account for the downstream costs associated with fossil fuels that society pays for one way or another? How much needs to be added to the cost of a solar kW to account for panel and/or battery disposal or recycling?

Just looking at the energy density of a gallon of diesel fuel and comparing that to other energy forms has to be done while keeping many other factors in mind. Doing otherwise is an example of being penny-wise and pound-foolish.

I don't want to sound like a green energy nutcase, but I think we can and will tap solar resources a lot more than we have, and the overall effects of displacing traditional fuels will be very beneficial.

 

[dmccarty]

I drive a F350, 4x4, crew cab with an eight foot bed. People tail gate me constantly. Mostly they are driving smaller cars not SUV or PUs. While I see aggressive driving with some PUs and SUVs, most of the drivers are in smaller cars or motorcycles. Sometimes the people tail gating are driving a Prius. :shocked::laughing::laughing::laughing: Unless the tail gater is a larger vehicle I just don't care. The truck has quite a bit of mass for them to mess with if they hit me. I will be driving home from the accident while they will be towed. Cars zip around me so they can go nowhere while increasing the odds of an accident. I can't tell if they are clueless, lack situational awareness, or just dont care. Maybe all three.

I put put along at 55 mph since that is the speed limit and for some of the roads it is the safest speed. One road is a one lane in each direction and the people who pass, get at best, 30-60 seconds up the road before hitting more traffic. This road just had two accidents, one of which had a fatality. The fatality was a head on crash. I am surprised at how few of these there has been over the years because of the crazy people passing. Most of the crazy passers are in cars.

I get passed on a four lane road by Priuses all of the time. They are doing at least 10 over as they "save" fuel as they pass other cars. Last week a Pod Of Priuses passed me all speeding. I think it is the same cars I usually see but they were just podded up for a change.

Later,
Dan

 

[homedad]

Is it possible that the tailgaters are actually hypermilers, and are drafting? They are interested in high MPG's

I maintain that many people are only limiting their speed due to the vehicle in front of them. They are so distracted by their phone, passenger, coffee or food that they don't know that they are too close.

 

[dmccarty]

Is it possible that the tailgaters are actually hypermilers, and are drafting? They are interested in high MPG's

I maintain that many people are only limiting their speed due to the vehicle in front of them. They are so distracted by their phone, passenger, coffee or food that they don't know that they are too close.

Nah, they are not hypermiling. They are just stupid. Anyone keeping less than three feet between the front of their car and the back of the car they are following at 55 mph is a moron and/or distracted. I do see some of these people driving while on the phone but many are just in a hurry and they are annoyed that someone is in front of them. The don't think about what will happen if the car in front has to hit the brakes.

Later,
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

Just saw this about a Volvo DIESEL hybrid with all wheel drive, Volvo V60 Plug-in Hybrid: Eco, economy and diesel power

Looks like it would cost $60-70K in the US if the diesel was allowed in the states.

Later,
Dan

 

[bcp]

It is easy to spot all the fast drivers on a highway. They are behind slower drivers. So why rush?

Bruce

 

[Midniteoyl]

It is easy to spot all the fast drivers on a highway. They are behind slower drivers. So why rush?

Bruce

Exactly why the German system wont work here, regardless of the whining..

 

[houstonscott]

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2010-volkswagen-polo-bluemotion-diesel-quick-spin


The batteries are not necessary for the mileage, and not worth the risk and added pollution and cost to manufacture. We just need to get the real cutting edge high mileage technologies into the country that the rest of the world enjoys.

HS.