Intermittend "no start"

rlee6 · Mar 8, 2006

Intermittend \"no start\"

Manual says safe start conditons are to be met. They are: PTO off, Parking Brake or Foot Brake on. All these conditions are met, but still no start. But after a while it starts again. It appears to be spelled. I remember reading somewhere that the battery (-)/chassis connection needs to be tightened. Is this applicable? Any advice?

Tractor: Allmand 8435 HST (or TYM T330 HST) 370 hours

jbrumberg · Mar 8, 2006

Re: Intermittend \"no start\"

I never had this problem with my tractors, but whenever I had intermittent starting problems with other vehicles I would first check the (-) ground connection at the battery post and at the (-) cable connection on the frame. I am a believer in brushing the contact areas, dousing the areas with a solution of baking soda and water, cleaning, drying, reconnecting the connections, and smearing the connections with vaseline. This usually worked. I am not a mechanic and I have seen some good advise in threads in TBN in the past. Jay

SnowRidge · Mar 8, 2006

Re: Intermittend \"no start\"

Check the starter interlocks. You should find switches mechanically linked to the PTO lever and the brakes. Sometimes the switch mounting is loose or gets out of adjustment. If you have a clutch, it will probably have an interlock too.

As an aside, 20 years ago, I had a 4WD Chevy Suburban shop vehicle that had an intermittent starting problem from day one. It would break down about once a month, usually in a remote area, and I would have it towed to the nearest dealer, where they would inevitably replace a bunch of parts under warranty. The starter, battery, and alternator were all replaced at least twice.

The last time it wouldn't start was at a construction stop on the Wilson River Highway in Oregon. There was about a 15 minute wait while they ran one way traffic for several miles. When I tried to start, I got nothing.

I got mad and decided to troubleshoot it myself. It took me all of five minutes will a voltmeter. The starter interlock on the clutch pedal was loose. That was all it was. GM, due to their dealers' ineptness, spent well over a thousand dollars trying to fix something that took five minutes and a wrench. In today's dollars, close to two grand.

TYM_Tech · Mar 8, 2006

Re: Intermittend \"no start\"

Hello. There is a control module inside the dash - if it is failing, it will have to be replaced. There are ground wires attached on the same bolts that have the hood hinge on the firewall - sometimes paint is under the ground wire causing poor connection. If you have additional questions, you may call me toll-free at 1-866-684-7378. - Roger

linpat · Mar 8, 2006

Re: Intermittend \"no start\"

great job tym-tech!!
tym showing support.

SHIFTY · Mar 8, 2006

Re: Intermittend \"no start\"

Be shure that both HST petals are even,try turning the key to start while pushing alittle on one petal or the other incase they are out of adjustment

rlee6 · Mar 8, 2006

Re: Intermittend \"no start\"

Thank you all. Since this is a low traffic forum, I thought I would be lucky if I could get a tip, maybe two. How wrong I was! 5 suggestions, and a TOLL-FREE phone number for questions! Thanks folks. I will get back with you soon.

rlee6 · Mar 8, 2006

Re: Intermittend \"no start\"

I have an online question for you, TYM-Tech. The first thing I did after I picked up the tractor was to replace the hydraulic oil. I couldn't find the recommended fluid from CALTEX, Texaco, or Chevron, so I used WalMart SuperTech Hydraulic and Transmission Fluid. It met Kubota UDT spec and several others, and was recommended for hydraulics, transmission, wet brake, etc.

I have a 3000 psi hydraulic system at work and we really baby it. We use recommended fluid and do routine oil analysis. But the tractor, according to service manual, has pressure relief valve set at 6000 psi. After finding the original hydraulic filter still on the tractor, I could not sleep. I had to drain the "dirty" oil and give it a clean oil that the high pressure system requires. I used SuperTech as I may have to replace it with recommended fluid later.

Please advise. I am not asking you to endorse SuperTech. I am only asking you to tell me if I you see a gross incompatibility.

TYM_Tech · Mar 10, 2006

Re: Intermittend \"no start\"

Hello rlee6
Any universal hydraulic transmission oil would be fine. I prefer to use oil with a major oil manufacturer brand on the container.

If the SuperTech says "universal hydraulic transmission" on it, then it should be OK to use.

rlee6 · Mar 10, 2006

Re: Intermittend \"no start\"

TYM-TECH:
Thanks. Let me continue with the question that I asked you over the phone. You suspected rear brake dragging and suggested loosening up the pivot joint on the brake mechanical link. The pivoting bracket is blocked by the loader frame and couldn't be removed. I just sprayed WD40. It became looser than before. As I release the brake pedal, it pivots just a little bit. Is that loose enough? Or should it be really loose, freely rotating? Thanks.

By the way, what makes the bracket pivot when brake pedal is released? I didn't see any spring anywhere in the mechanical linkage.

rlee6 · Mar 10, 2006

Re: Intermittend \"no start\"

Regarding the intermittent no start problem:
I cleaned up 2 grounding connections, one directly underneath the battery where grounding strip is fastened, and the other at the hood hinge bolt where instrument ground is connected. The battery ground connection did not have paint on the frame. But the hinge bolt area a good paint. After cleaning up these 2 connections, tractor started right up. That was until this afternoon. It didn't start again.

After much head scratching, I accidentaly found that if I pressed the brake pedal a little harder, it started right up. I now read that SnowRidge suggested it, but I didn't remember it then. Next time I get to the tractor, I will check for a brake switch.

PS: I just got a parts manual from Allmand. I don't see a brake switch. But again I don't see the pivoting bracket that I was asking about to TYM-Tech, either. Well.....

rlee6 · Mar 10, 2006

Re: Intermittend \"no start\"

TYM_Tech:
I have another question. It's about fuel filter replacement. Operator's manual shows ON and OFF on the bowl and another bleeding position on the injector pump. But I don't see any lever on the injector pump. And the fuel filter bowl has 3 positions, ON, OFF, and AIR. What's the correct fuel filter replacement procedure? Thanks.

TYM_Tech · Mar 12, 2006

Re: Intermittend \"no start\"

Hello rlee6
I will address your three recent posts in this reply.

The proper start-up procedure would be to press on the single pedal on the right hand side. This has the direct connection to the switch. The switch is located inside the dash, directly behind this pedal, and is screwed onto the firewall. I have not seen problems with this switch before. When you say it "will not start" do you ever hear a click or a partial turn of the starter? If so, the safety control module is probably going bad.

As far as the brake linkage returning, one dealer drilled a hole in the main arm at the rear and added a spring to positively return the linkage. But I always was able to make them operate properly by disassembling, and loosening up the pivot bushings.

Regarding the fuel filter replacement - turn the lever to off, unscrew cup, change filter, turn lever to air, locate primer pump, operate primer pump until filter cup is full of fuel, turn lever to on, start engine.

If you have additional questions, feel free to call me again.
- Roger

rlee6 · Mar 12, 2006

Re: Intermittend \"no start\"

( When you say it "will not start" do you ever hear a click or a partial turn of the starter? If so, the safety control module is probably going bad.)
No, I don't hear any sound at all. No clicking, nothing.

( As far as the brake linkage returning, one dealer drilled a hole in the main arm at the rear and added a spring to positively return the linkage.)
I like the spring approach. I think adding a return spring would be simpler than removing the front loader. Thanks for the tip.

( Regarding the fuel filter replacement - turn the lever to off, unscrew cup, change filter, turn lever to air, locate primer pump, operate primer pump until filter cup is full of fuel, turn lever to on, start engine.)
I suppose the primer pump to be upstream of the fuel bowl, a manual priming pump with a handle. I will look for it. Thanks.

rlee6 · Mar 14, 2006

Re: Intermittend \"no start\"

TYM-Tech,
I am becoming convinced that it is the "board" that is bad. I ran out of causes for non-starting. How do I describe this board to a dealer? Thanks.

TYM_Tech · Mar 14, 2006

Re: Intermittend \"no start\"

 
Hello rlee6
That would be the control module. You should be able to find the part number in the electrical system portion of your parts manual under control module.

Good luck!
~ Roger

rlee6 · Mar 20, 2006

Re: Intermittend \"no start\"

I called my area dealer for the control module. They had 2 in stock, about $250. I was debating if I could live with the intermittent problem. If I wait long enough, it always starts again.

Then I found a thread in the Mahindra section discussing the same issue for 2810 HST. Here is the link: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Board/mahindra/Number/831368/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/fpart/1
According to the thread, it was not just the control module issue. Something else was causing it to happen. Some relay and harness, according to a reputable Mahindra dealer. Here is the quote:

QUOTE
I know the answer to that, it is the 2810 and 2310 HST models. Some of the late 2810 HST and all of the 3510 HST models already have the diode/relay harness on them.
END QUOTE

My Allmand 8435 HST was made in 2003, serial number 7. Does the diode/relay/harness issue apply to my tractor, too? Or, as the quote reads, is the tractor already equipped with a diode assembly? Thanks.

TYM_Tech · Mar 21, 2006

Re: Intermittend \"no start\"

Hello rlee6
If the relay was added on the harness it will be strapped to the front side of the firewall. You probably should check with Allmand whether it was added or made into the harness. If it has the relay, you probably would not be having the intermittent problem.

shvl73 · Mar 21, 2006

Re: Intermittend \"no start\"

Did you see the black relay in the pictures Danny posted in the other thread? I believe that's the relay. It looks like it will be visible against the firewall if it's installed, it wasn't on mine. I'm having Lawalls send me one, I'm sure any of the Mahindra or TYM dealers can get you one.

rlee6 · Mar 21, 2006

Re: Intermittend \"no start\"

Thanks Tym-Tech and shvl73. I will check mine.
1) If I don't have the relay/diode, lack of it is the likely cause of intermittent no start. But if I have it and still have intermittent no start, the control module is bad. Is this summary correct?
2) What does the diode/relay do? I am just curious.
3) How much does it cost, shvl73?

Thanks.