Insurance cancelled on century-old farmhouse. What are the alternatives now?

[oosik]

I built a log cabin in a very remote location when we lived in AK. No police, no fire, no road maintenance, no water, no sewer, no electricity, no mail service. I could not get insurance on the property or cabin. I just had to bite the bullet. One exception - the state police would respond in case of a homicide, only. Usually before the odor became to overpowering.

 

[Jchonline]

Beautiful place. I like it as well. Sorry you are having issues with it. We have USAA so insuring has never been an issue, even in fire country. Do you happen to have a sibling or child with USAA that could be added to the deed to insure it?

 

[fried1765]

Insurance will be cancelled on this simple century-old farmhouse. It's on short piers with no perimeter foundation (in earthquake country), all plumbing and the knob & tube wiring was farmer-installed without regard to code. The 1960's electrical upgrade installed a 200 amp Federal Pacific (fire hazard, uninsurable) entry panel.

It isn't our primary home, that's a conventional home in town. We've enjoyed keeping the farmhouse, barns, even the windmill, same as they must have looked long before my grandparents retired here in 1950. The Gravenstein apple orchard is still run commercially, operated by a neighbor, same as a century ago, in contrast to all the neighbors who have gone to wine grapes. We like this little piece of California as it was pre-war, its a vanished culture.

What are the alternatives to find insurance for this grossly non-code-compliant house and outbuildings?

I own a 290 year old house with 11.7 acres, on Cape Cod, that my mother bought in 1932.
It was insured locally, until no company would insure it because they had decided it was in a hurricane zone.

I asked a local agent to find me something, and he did.
Lloyd's of London, and it was not prohibitively expensive.

I have been a USAA member for 59 years now, and last year, they finally decided that they would take my coverage.
If you are USAA eligible I would try them first. Next,...try Lloyd's.

While going round and round on this issue, I was asked when the electrical system was installed.
I responded that I did not know, but the electrician's name was, "Ben...something....maybe.... Franklin"!
The questioner did not flinch.....obviously did not get my sarcasm.
All parts of the electrical system are 1950's vintage or much newer.

 

[JethroB]

Have you spoken to an independent agent or two? They have access to multiple insurers that many have never heard of and can be more flexible than the mainstream companies.
Lloyd’s of London for example. Liability is always necessary in my mind.

 

[two_bit_score]

If Pool (assigned risk) coverage is expensive and basically insures nothing, ie would pay 'Depreciated Value' (zero) in the case of a loss, then I will go for liability only. Liability is the only part I consider essential.

You can probably get an Umbrella policy on your Homeowners policy to cover the Farm Residence. That's what we do.

 

[ponytug]

I own a 290 year old house with 11.7 acres, on Cape Cod, that my mother bought in 1932.
It was insured locally, until no company would insure it because they had decided it was in a hurricane zone.

I asked a local agent to find me something, and he did.
Lloyd's of London, and it was not prohibitively expensive.

I have been a USAA member for 69 years now, and last year, they finally decided that they would take my coverage.
If you are USAA eligible I would try them first. Next,...try Lloyd's.

While going round and round on this issue, I was asked when the electrical system was installed.
I responded that I did not know, but the electrician's name was, "Ben...something....maybe.... Franklin"!
The questioner did not flinch.....obviously did not get my sarcasm.

Another vote for Lloyds. We had an issue come up that was essentially uninsurable in the US, but we were able to arrange very reasonable coverage through Lloyds via an independent broker. As in the premium was about 10% more than we had been quoted before things went sideways, and things were declared uninsurable. (Long and not very relevant story)


All the best,

Peter

 

[California]

Good ideas, all.

I don't feel especially sentimental, I just don't feel that modern architecture would add any comfort or convenience justifying the cost of replacing the building or the high cost of making it code-compliant.

I have thought that $10k of gardening, repainting, etc would make it a too-cute AirB&B weekend rental like a neighbor has done very successfully. But that's just a comparison, we wont do that.

No USAA contacts available, personal or family. Lloyds is an idea I hadn't thought of, thanks! I've read good things about them writing unusual insurance, and that their business model is unique. They match insurance customers with individual investors who agree to stand personally liable for costs up to the limits of a policy, including huge policies for ship cargoes etc. I didn't know they would write small homeowner-size policies. Maybe they pool those.

My insurance agent is independent and I'll see if he can write for Lloyds. He handles farms, wineries, I presume trucking and home builders, everything a farm-based community would insure.

I'll ask if the umbrella addition on my home in town (from when I owned rentals, and different agent) can be extended to liability for this rural house and orchard.

Another photo. Spending money on the house wont buy us an improvement to what we already enjoy.

 

[ning]

Our first house had knob&tube wiring that gave me the willies.
Replaced it all ourselves; it was a single-story 1200sf house with an attic and a decent amount of the wiring was in the attic which made things easier, plus we were doing a major remodel (that house hadn't had anything done to it in 40 years, this was '92, you should've seen the state of the carpeting we hauled out - had to cut it into yard squares just to lift it it was so heavy). Basically saying, don't be too afraid of replacing the electrical.

 

[hube2]

My mom's house had knob and tube wiring, it was the first house in the hamlet they lived in to get electric. It was scary. When I was replacing it I found one hot wire that was hooked into the box on both ends , oh, you thought you had that circuit disconnected? Wrong.

We completely gutted that house and burned the entire original house except for the main framing timbers in the back yard.

 

[MossRoad]

My mom's house had knob and tube wiring, it was the first house in the hamlet they lived in to get electric. It was scary. When I was replacing it I found one hot wire that was hooked into the box on both ends , oh, you thought you had that circuit disconnected? Wrong.

We completely gutted that house and burned the entire original house except for the main framing timbers in the back yard.

We call that a toaster.

YIKES!

Our current (there's a pun there) home was built in the 20s. There's still knob and tube all over the place, but, fortunately, it's all disconnected and modernized now.

 

[MoKelly]

We recently moved from a house built in 1914.

The history was very interesting.

It still had knob and tube around but replaced years ago.

We had radiator heat plus whole house gas heat. The boiler and pump motor in the basement looked really really old but worked fine. Radiator heat is very nice.

We had asbestos wrapped pipes in the basement that were encapsulated.

The sewer pipes were cast iron and PVC.

The house was updated so we had walk-in closets v. the cubby holes originally and the kitchen was expanded from the small box originally. Folks in the early 1900’s had no need for closets or kitchens!!

The detached garage was a carriage house and had living space above the car storage area. However, the ceiling was sloped and the slopes were only about 6 feet tall.

It was a fun house but it was 4 stories and we were not getting any younger. Plus, an attached garage is nice.

MoKelly

 

[California]

... found one hot wire that was hooked into the box on both ends

Token Ring! Early IBM equivalent to Ethernet for office networking but slower. It used a loop like that (for signals) to improve reliability.

Your discovery sounds just plain scary.

 

[civilian]

We call that a toaster.

YIKES!

Our current (there's a pun there) home was built in the 20s. There's still knob and tube all over the place, but, fortunately, it's all disconnected and modernized now.

House built last year still has knob and tube? Oh, you mean 1920's! LOL. Jon

 

[plowhog]

My mom's house had knob and tube wiring, it was the first house in the hamlet they lived in to get electric. It was scary. When I was replacing it I found one hot wire that was hooked into the box on both ends

I hear ya.

I reworked a circuit in a knob and tube house. I knew nothing about the wiring history and found a jumble of wires going into a common box where I wanted to add a light. I carefully traced the wires out-- found the hot wire, then found the ground wire also connected to hot.

 

[MossRoad]

House built last year still has knob and tube? Oh, you mean 1920's! LOL. Jon

Ha! I had to think about that.

 

[California]

... traced the wires out-- found the hot wire, then found the ground wire also connected to hot.

I wonder what this means.

 

[MossRoad]

I wonder what this means.

My outlet / GFCI tester shows all 3 lights lit, what does that mean?

Normally when you see this, the first thing that you will want to check is all of the connections on the back of the receptacle, and if all of those are tight, then check the rest of the receptacle…

gardnerbenderfaq.wordpress.com

 

[California]

My outlet / GFCI tester shows all 3 lights lit, what does that mean?

Normally when you see this, the first thing that you will want to check is all of the connections on the back of the receptacle, and if all of those are tight, then check the rest of the receptacle…

gardnerbenderfaq.wordpress.com

Thanks for that link! Yes, a loose wire is possible.

A while back at a different location I had intermittent power and found a loose wire. I replaced that outlet. I'll do that here and see how it tests. (There's nothing else plugged into the circuit, their other possibility).

 

[ning]

I've had circuits where there's like 70 volts on the neutral but practically zero current - induced voltage.
May be enough to drive the LED.

 

[MossRoad]

I had a similar situation at my house. Wife wanted bathroom redone. Changed colors of walls and floor. I wanted to change Ivory colored GFCI and light switches to White. So I pulled a perfectly functioning Ivory GFCI and installed a White one. It would trip the breaker upon being reset. I tried a 2nd GFCI. It wouldn't work, either. Reinstalled the original. Nope, it wouldn't work either. Scratches head. Buys GFCI tester similar to yours. Got all three lights, which wasn't on the list of possible combos. YIKES@$%%#!!!

So I started tracing things back.

First, the circuit breaker was faulty and burnt inside.
Replaced breaker.
GFCI would now reset OK.
Tester down to two lights, but flopped polarity.

Followed wire to next box in circuit, a ceramic ceiling light fixture in the basement. Found smoked connection in that fixture and cracked ceramic. Tested polarity at that box. OK. Replaced the fixture. Still flopped polarity at GFCI as expected.

Followed the wires to a j-box under the bathroom. Opened that up to find the hot and neutral going up to the GFCI were swapped. Removed all of the many connections, sorted everything out, re-connected properly and all tested well at the GFCI.

I still have no idea why the original GFCI was working, then no GFCI was working, other than I flipped the breaker to power off the circuit originally and that drove the breaker to finally die.

Anyhow, it was a good refresher lesson for me in circuit testing and starting from the beginning. I don't get frustrated too easily and don't mind doing that kind of work. It's just a logical trace-out from beginning to end. Slow and methodical. The only bummer was it was all overhead work, so my arms got tired after a while. Just another excuse to take a break and have some snacks.