Improving your welding?

[Furu]

Since you asked, First thing I would do is stop trying to weld metal that is thicker than your machine is capable of. Your machine is dual voltage, use it for what it is meant to do.
Second, I would start listening to to what has already been said on a bunch of different threads. Stop belly aching everytime you post of a picture of your welds and somebody critizes them.. By all means, post more pics of your weld, ask questions, and stop the basted arguing when you have already been told a hundred times your welder isnt designed to weld 1/2 plate on 110v. Facts are facts, every manufacturer of 110v mig welding machines will tell you the machine isnt designed to weld over 3/16 and it will say so right on the welder in most cases. Its a fact, learn to deal with it.

+1:thumbsup:

 

[Reverser]

Actually, the ones that I hear doing the bellyaching are the ones giving Sodo a hard time. Reminds me of a pack of yapping dogs that turn on the one that don't follow along.

Give it a rest. Sodo has as much right to post as anyone else.

 

[roadhunter]

Actually, the ones that I hear doing the bellyaching are the ones giving Sodo a hard time. Reminds me of a pack of yapping dogs that turn on the one that don't follow along.

Give it a rest. Sodo has as much right to post as anyone else.

+1:thumbsup:

 

[muddstopper]

Actually, the ones that I hear doing the bellyaching are the ones giving Sodo a hard time. Reminds me of a pack of yapping dogs that turn on the one that don't follow along.

Give it a rest. Sodo has as much right to post as anyone else.

Dont be led into temptation, but deliver yourselfs from Evil.

 

[firemanmike69]

Have we cut and bent the test plate yet?

 

[Sodo]

Since you asked, First thing I would do is stop trying to weld metal that is thicker than your machine is capable of. Your machine is dual voltage, use it for what it is meant to do.
Second, I would start listening to to what has already been said on a bunch of different threads. Stop belly aching everytime you post of a picture of your welds and somebody critizes them.. By all means, post more pics of your weld, ask questions, and stop the basted arguing when you have already been told a hundred times your welder isnt designed to weld 1/2 plate on 110v. Facts are facts, every manufacturer of 110v mig welding machines will tell you the machine isnt designed to weld over 3/16 and it will say so right on the welder in most cases. Its a fact, learn to deal with it.

This footpeg bracket (from earlier post) is 1/2" steel, welded with 120v. It worked OK because the bracket doesnt have a lot of mass. The owner was thrilled.

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View attachment 386215

Sorry Mudd, your suggestion doesn't "fit" the program. :laughing: actually I was referring to welding techniques, not the philosophy part.

 

[Arc weld]

Arc, I must be really be missing something. You and SA appear to still have an axe to grind with Sodo... and while I don't know him, it appears he is trying to put the silly feud behind him. He is just one guy throwing in his two cents and it is worth something, just maybe not to you. I am not trying to take sides at all but I will admit I get a lot out of listening to many here on TBN... regardless of their credentials, experience, and manners.

Sometimes I bite my own tongue when I listen someone talk about a particular subject matter especially when I consider myself much better informed. For instance, when a person starts explaining dynamic vs. static loads and references testing of aircraft wings. I happen to know more than a little about that subject as I spent a few of my years intimately involved in static and fatigue (dynamic) testing of full scale aircraft... but I didn't chime in and let the poster know that he is just a hobbyist or whatever in that subject and as such he should stop spewing incorrect info. Instead I think that person was just trying to do the best he could... no?

The way I see it, there is always an opportunity to learn from others regardless of where you see them on a particular totem pole.

I don't have an axe to grind. I'm curious with Sodo doing everything on 110 volts and trying to justify it so much that he bought a dual voltage machine? I think that's a legitimate question. I do have a bit of a problem when someone/anyone posts a picture of a bad weld and instead of listening to what others have to say, tries to justify it and make excuses for it. We've all done some less than stellar work but if you can't take constructive criticism, you'll never improve. I've had other engineers say they are 3 types of loading, static, dynamic and cyclic loading. The basic understanding I was taught, over 30 years ago, was that static loading is something that just sits there, like a base plate on the bottom of a table leg. A dynamic load is something that could have changing loads but not necessarily cyclic. I would consider something like a spreader bar or a lifting hook a dynamic load and weld it as such. A lot of structural steel is static in use but welded with filler metal designed for dynamic loading. 6013/7014 for example aren't approved for welding structural steel. Even the saddles for large vessels that do just sit there are welded as if they were dynamic loads. For some things you really need to know exactly what to do and for other things all you need is a basic understanding. If a person erred on the side of caution and used 7018 on a project instead of 6013 because they weren't sure isn't likely anything to be concerned with. Welding thicker material than a welder is rated for is cause for concern.

 

[Sodo]

I don't have an axe to grind. I'm curious with Sodo doing everything on 110 volts and trying to justify it so much that he bought a dual voltage machine? I think that's a legitimate question.

I don't think I've ever heard a more legit question on TBN. Arc you've asked that several times, do you really want to know the answer and if I can explain it will it reduce the tension?

 

[Arc weld]

You were asking about getting 220 hooked up so I figure you'd like to have 220 eventually. I'm not always doom and gloom, sometimes there's a full moon and I like to howl at it.

 

[Happy Gilmore]

I don't think I've ever heard a more legit question on TBN. Arc you've asked that several times, do you really want to know the answer and if I can explain it will it reduce the tension?

Go for it, now I'm curious

 

[dragoneggs]

I don't have an axe to grind. I'm curious with Sodo doing everything on 110 volts and trying to justify it so much that he bought a dual voltage machine? I think that's a legitimate question. I do have a bit of a problem when someone/anyone posts a picture of a bad weld and instead of listening to what others have to say, tries to justify it and make excuses for it. We've all done some less than stellar work but if you can't take constructive criticism, you'll never improve. I've had other engineers say they are 3 types of loading, static, dynamic and cyclic loading. The basic understanding I was taught, over 30 years ago, was that static loading is something that just sits there, like a base plate on the bottom of a table leg. A dynamic load is something that could have changing loads but not necessarily cyclic. I would consider something like a spreader bar or a lifting hook a dynamic load and weld it as such. A lot of structural steel is static in use but welded with filler metal designed for dynamic loading. 6013/7014 for example aren't approved for welding structural steel. Even the saddles for large vessels that do just sit there are welded as if they were dynamic loads. For some things you really need to know exactly what to do and for other things all you need is a basic understanding. If a person erred on the side of caution and used 7018 on a project instead of 6013 because they weren't sure isn't likely anything to be concerned with. Welding thicker material than a welder is rated for is cause for concern.

Hoping to put this little sidebar to bed... cyclic loading indeed is a form of dynamic loading. I could be wrong (no :shocked but I think you are confusing static load with dead load. Dead load is basically the load based on the weight of the object. A static load is the dead load plus any additional load that is 'slowly' applied such that you don't create significant dynamic effects creating a shock or vibration. That additional load could be due to pressure, added mass or gravity. Anyways... back to improving one's welding and maybe even civility.

 

[Sodo]

I'm actually not sure what the question is, but it must be legit. Prefer not to bother Arc with this tonite let a guy howl at the moon once in awhile.

 

[muddstopper]

This footpeg bracket (from earlier post) is 1/2" steel, welded with 120v. It worked OK because the bracket doesnt have a lot of mass. The owner was thrilled.

View attachment 386216
View attachment 386215

Sorry Mudd, your suggestion doesn't "fit" the program. :laughing: actually I was referring to welding techniques, not the philosophy part.

Actually its fits the program very well. To learn techniques, you look, listen and learn. As this thread has progressed, you have continued to refuse to listen to what other more knowledgeable people have had to say. You inject your thoughts and opinions as if they are fact without reguard to what other more seasoned professionals have had to say. I am only suggesting that if you really want to learn more, you first learn to listen to the pros on the subject. They have most likely already been thru the trail and error parts of leaning their craft and for the most part seem willing to pass along their experiences to those that are willing to listen. I think you want to pass along advice and experiences that you have learned over the years, but the problem is your advice is mostly bad, and inaccurate, and potentially dangerous. Not saying you have bad intentions, or trying to deliberately pass along bad advice, its just that you dont know any better. Advice such as the foot peg examples in your post. Did it work, was the customer happy, is there a reason why some countries are outlawing such repairs. The answer to all those questions is most likely yes. There is a reason some countries are outlawing such procedures, its unsafe. There is also a reason why the customer is happy, and its because they simply dont know any better or the risk they are taking. Did it work, yep, only until it fails.

 

[jaotguy]

hands up , all you people that "did" something stupid in your younger years that you would avoid doing today... now that you know better ....

hmmmmm ... a lot I see .

I too am guilty ... I was also pig headed at times but I was always willing to admit I was wrong if someone could prove it to me ... ( and I was wrong a lot ) ...

back in the late 80's , I would have welded a unit body car and not even thought twice about it , ... couldn't see why they would scrap a totally good car due to minor body damage ... ( old school / frame thinking )
today I would never dream of putting torches to one ... and agree with the "scrap it" view ....

I cam make "pretty " welds on non structural items and a decent weld on things that matter .... for those "critical" things , I take it to a "welding shop" ... have friends there that can do it quicker and better than I can , and have better equipment .

can we do things that weren't meant to be done , work ? yes ...
like using a set of 12V 40 amp DC relays to replace a single 240V 10 amp AC "box" , to get a piece of machinery up for 2 days while the proper part gets in... frowned upon by many and rightly so , but it does work ...

welding beyond the manufacturer's specifications / ratings can be done too.... but the question arises ... why do it when there are "proper" machines out there that ARE rated for what you want to do...

everyone has a different comfort zone ... (just as I do ) ... many experienced welders will say "NO" because of their experience and knowledge of "codes" ... they would lose their ticket if caught .... yet the small general shop down the street will happily say "sure, pick it up at the end of the day " ....

there is a lot of highly experienced welders on this forum .... and a lot of new ones in training. the older ones are trying to pass on the "right" way and stop the shortcuts that cause problems ( not to scold us cause we didn't know any better )... There are others that "have" done it and it worked out OK for them ( got lucky , wasn't a critical weld , etc ) ... the older ones know what "could" happen and avoid it by following procedures (that we haven't learned yet) , that eliminate the problems ...

everyone's experience it valuable IF they learn from it ... it's what makes us better at what we do ...

so keep your heads up, and ears open and be willing to learn ... about anything.:thumbsup:

 

[pmsmechanic]

Ok so what is the real problem with 120 volt welders? Why are they only rated for 3/16th's steel? Obviously I'm missing something here because my thought's on welding are that you should be able to build up your weld with multiple passes to do the same job as a larger welder. Only it's going to take longer because of the multiple passes. It must have something to do with a 120 volt welder not being able to generate enough heat to penetrate properly.

Also I realize that manufacturer's need to cover their butts and probably underrate their welders to a certain extent. But to be fair to them they cannot control how a welder is used after it leaves the factory so they play it safe and I don't blame them one bit.

Let me stir up the pot some more. My neighbours have a 120 volt mig. It will blow a 15 amp breaker in no time so to use it properly you need to install a 20 amp breaker with correspondingly larger wire. Correct me if I'm wrong but a wire that is sized for 20 amps at 120 volts will handle 40 amps on a 240 volt circuit. 40 amps is enough to run a welder so why bother with the 120 volts?

 

[roadhunter]

One reason is there are 110v outlets all over the place so you can use a 110v machine almost anywhere.

 

[Furu]

Let me stir up the pot some more. My neighbours have a 120 volt mig. It will blow a 15 amp breaker in no time so to use it properly you need to install a 20 amp breaker with correspondingly larger wire. Correct me if I'm wrong but a wire that is sized for 20 amps at 120 volts will handle 40 amps on a 240 volt circuit. 40 amps is enough to run a welder so why bother with the 120 volts?

Welder specific circuits have a carve out in the code but only if they are dedicated circuits.
I can't dedicate any single circuit thus I go normal.
In general for copper wire circuits
15 amp. 14 ga
20 amp 12 ga
30 amp. 10 ga
40 amp. 8 ga
50 amp . 6 ga

Do 't know of many 110/120v that are above 20 amps but there might be a 30 amp once in a while. Mostly, 240 volts will be 30 amp and above. Can't say I have seen 20 amp 240 v in the US but common in rest of world where they don't use 120 volt circuits.

 

[CNC Dan]

My neighbours have a 120 volt mig. It will blow a 15 amp breaker in no time so to use it properly you need to install a 20 amp breaker with correspondingly larger wire. Correct me if I'm wrong but a wire that is sized for 20 amps at 120 volts will handle 40 amps on a 240 volt circuit. 40 amps is enough to run a welder so why bother with the 120 volts?

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Wire that can only handle 20 amps at 120 volts, can't handle any more at higher voltage. But 20 amps at higher voltage will result in more power. Power in Watts equals Volts times Amps.
The current limits for wire are due to resistance heating in the wire, caused by the flow of current.
Most wire used on 120 volt outlets and lights is rated for much higher voltage.

 

[Furu]

I guess I was trying to avoid being so blunt by stating the gauge wire for amp requirement and presuming the correct conclusion by the questioner. Your response was more concise and avoided any misunderstanding.

 

[Happy Gilmore]

There is no better combination for skills improvement than an experienced individual willing to teach, and a student willing and eager to learn. If either one is lacking, well you know the rest. One thing I constantly remind my children is that they don't always have to have an answer, often they'll be better off just sitting back and listening. If someone is always trying to stay ahead of the conversation by thinking of what to say next, they can't possibly be listening to or watching what is going on in the present.