I'm confused about trucks???

_RaT_ · Oct 20, 2005

I\'m confused about trucks???

My 1993 is Ford F250 is going to go. Big, big turning radius, anemic diesel, needs tires, etc., etc.. I was think about a Toyota Tacoma V6, double or extra cab in 4WD. Gas mileage is 17 to 21 mpg. A compact pickup with this kind of mileage? What do folks with a full size Dodge with a diesel get? Heck, Dave Smith motors in Idaho has slightly used Dodge Quad cabs, 4X4 diesel, 15000 to 30000 miles for $30,000 and less. As much as I don't need a full size anymore, it makes me wonder about the popularity of a compact when the tow/payload are small but the fuel consumption is high. If I drop to the 4 cylinder, I can't get the 4 door and the towing capacity is severely diminished. What to do. I was thinking compacts could achieve at least 25 MPG. Obviously not. I'm back to thinking full size diesel.

Glenn9643 · Oct 20, 2005

Re: I\'m confused about trucks???

I don't have a diesel but the 2001 GMC extended cab with 5.3V8 gas, trailer towing package, and positrak rear axle. Don't need 4wd. I normally drive 80 on the interstate and am the first out at the redlights in town. Don't drive recklessly but try to hurry usually. My mileage has been 17 mpg since I had the truck. 95, 96000 miles right now with no sign of troubles yet.
I'm thinking that I might go to a 3/4T diesel next with a trailer upgrade and a little larger tractor, but I've been well satisfied with what I'm driving right now.

HGM · Oct 20, 2005

Re: I\'m confused about trucks???

Try this site http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

I have a 2000 Ranger super cab(2dr) 4x2 with the 3.0L and a 5spd. Not alot of power, but the 5spd makes up for it. I get 23MPG w/150k mi. This doesnt sound like the truck for you, but its an example...

I dont know of a diesel truck out there that couldnt beat those ratings you mentioned. The Excursion 4x2 I drive for work gets 18.5MPG mostly highway 80MPH, I drive it like the ranger....

The site I linked, will help, different packages in the same vehicle can make a huge difference...

KentT · Oct 20, 2005

Re: I\'m confused about trucks???

This is what has me excited about the possibility that Jeep will bring their Gladiator concept truck to market. An extended-cab midsize (a foot shorter than a Dakota extended-cab) with a 2.4L 4-cylinder Common Rail Diesel. It has only 163 HP, but 295 ft lbs of torque (comparable to many V-8s), a 1500 lb payload and 5,000 lb towing capacity. They make that engine available now in the Jeep Liberty (a heavier vehicle) where it is rated 22/26MPG with an automatic -- no manual is available. Some owners are reporting slightly higher. It's actually quicker in the 1/4 mile than the 205 HP 3.7L 6-cylinder gas engine that is standard in them. The Gladiator comes with a 6-speed standard, which theoretically should get you at least a couple more MPG on the road. An honest 25 -30 MPG in a midsize pickup should be possible with sensible driving.

Rumors are that it will be released as a 2007 model. I hope so. I drive over 20 miles one-way to work, and I've already "downsized" from a Ram to a Dakota -- but I need to hang onto at least 5,000 lb towing capacity. Hopefully the Gladiator will be on the market and any bugs worked out by the time I'll be looking to trade in the Dakota...

Pictures and press release, with some specs

From the Jeep web page

TractorLegend · Oct 20, 2005

Re: I\'m confused about trucks???

Oh, I'd so let that Common Rail Diesel get its day in court before jumping down there with a fat wad of Franklins...but thats just my opinion. I know it sounds impressive on paper but.....

jcmseven · Oct 20, 2005

Re: I\'m confused about trucks???

Having owned about every variety of truck and chassis sizes, from small compact, to 1/2 ton two and then four wheel drive, to a diesel four wheel drive, I can honestly say the diesel is the overall best to me. My 2002 F250 will get 20-21 mpg on the highway and 14-15.5 pulling my very heavy tractor on trailer. It also gets 15-17 in city (in my case-town) driving, in hills, all day, and will burn up the road when needed. My four cylinder Ranger 2wd would get 25 on highway at easy speeds, but only 22 if pushed and only 18-19 in town. Although a little better, it would get squashed by the trailer my current machine pulls easily and did not have four wheel drive. My father's 1/2 ton Ford with a tall rear axle ratio, gets about 18 highway and 15 in town. These examples are merely to illustrate that to me, the differences in fuel economy are really so small, that buying the truck that will fit your NEEDS is the most important thing. If that is a compact, then great, but if not--and the decision is based only on fuel economy--it is probably not worth it. I am partial to diesels, and although not everyone likes them, I find them to make a lot of sense for me. I have heard that the most fuel efficient diesel (on average) is the Cummins/Dodge, but some of the numbers I hear are not significantly better than the others. To me, I would look at those trucks you mentioned and forego the compacts for now.

John M

boomer4snow · Oct 21, 2005

Re: I\'m confused about trucks???

I have a 3/4 ton 2004 Dodge Ram quad cab short bed 4x4 auto/ Cummins turbo diesel blah blah blah. Before I get into fuel economy, the truck has a 100 hp quadzilla chip "stacked" with a Van Aaken 100 hp chip (they make power in different ways and compliment each other). I have added guages, a free flowing intake and exhaust and a hard bed cover.

Stock the truck got 15/19 mileage. I have had the truck dynoed at 443 hp and 1100 ft #s at the wheels. In a more usable trim (100 hp only from 1 chip) it will get 19/24 mpg, and this is in a 7500# truck that will last much longer than a gasser would. Mileage is way better than a "Hemi" I can tow more, it will last longer, resale is higher, and I can embarass most anything on the road.

Highbeam · Oct 21, 2005

Re: I\'m confused about trucks???

Miles per gallon is not a priority on the pickups offered today in the US. Power, convenience, comfort, etc. are what sells.

Why is it that you have to go to a foreign country to get that Toyota crew cab 4x4 pickup with a 4 cylinder diesel that gets fantastic mileage? It is out there and has been for decades, just not in the US.

HGM · Oct 21, 2005

Re: I\'m confused about trucks???

I dont have the experiece with them, but do they get better than the 25MPG mentioned in the 4cyl Ranger? I think the Ameriacan public has been brainwashed into thinking the Jap. vehicles are that much better. If you compare apples to appbles, I belive you'll find little difference. Some do get better economy, but it comes at a price,usually less capacity. I'm not knocking them as a product, I just dont believe they are any better than it American equal. Personally I like the feel of an American vehicle, it doesnt seem like a plastic toy, but thats my opinion. With that said, I also prefer the Fords for similar reasons.

As I hinted to before, look at them all, see what you like the best.. As for the diesel, it would be my 1st choice hands down, if I needed a truck to tow my trailer. Currently I have a '94 F-150 that will tow anything I need to tow, economy is poor, however with 37" tires, it's capable of 14MPG, though not much worse than stock. As little as I need it, the Ranger suits my needs. Diesel fuel is going through some changes in the next year, meaning that we will surely start seeing more diesel powered vehicles to choose from.

Also, as I mentioned before, dont buy a crew cab dually thinking you'll get the same economy as a regular cab single rear wheel truck just because it has the same engine. There can be large differences with package changes.

Farmwithjunk · Oct 21, 2005

Re: I\'m confused about trucks???

Diesel trucks can get good milage, or they can drink the fuel. It depends on a number of things. I've got a 2004 Dodge/Cummins. My milage can vary from a high of near 20 (empty, highway milage, light right foot) to a low of 9 or 10. (Towing 25' gooseneck, loaded, weighing as much as 14,000lbs, stop and go city traffic.) I've got 4.10 gearing and a 6 speed manual shift.

I've considered buying a small truck for those times when I don't need a 1-ton. If I spent $20,000 (or even $10,000 for that matter) how long would it take for me to realize a savings, even at the ridiculous gas/fuel prices today? Throw in tax/license/insurance/ upkeep, and I might not ever save enough to break even. (I average 18,000 miles per year on my truck)

And for what it's worth, I passed a gas station on the way to work this morning with gas at $2.39.9! (Strange isn't it? $2.39, and my first reaction was "Isn't that CHEAP"? They got us right where they want us.............)

Granted, 90% of the time, I'm driving around WITHOUT the trailer in tow, or much of anything in the bed of the truck. But it sure is nice to be able to load anything that'll fit, and not concern myself with the trucks hauling capacity. I've owned a couple Toyota Tacoma's, a Tundra, and a host of other small trucks over the years. Having a 1 ton truck is just like having a pick-up truck itself. Once you've had one, it's hard to think about NOT having one.

jinman · Oct 21, 2005

Re: I\'m confused about trucks???

RaT, I have a 1996 Dodge Ram 12-valve Cummins turbo-diesel 2wd auto and towing package with 305k miles. It's the extended cab with a long bed. I can't tell you about those other trucks because this is all I've had for the last 10 years. If I were to have an accident or the truck was to let go, I'd first look for another similar truck up to the 2001 year model. I hate the gawdiness and horsepower/torque wars of the later Dodge trucks, but that's just my own day-to-day conservative nature.

My truck consistently gets 22 mpg in an 80/20 mix of highway/city driving. On long trips I get 23 or 24 mpg. Actually, if gas goes to $5 per gallon, I may be forced to go to a VW Diesel commuter car because I drive 70 mile one way to work each day. Seven gallons at $35 per day would make me look at another vehicle, but for now I just love the reliability and ride of this big ol' truck that gets good gas mileage. It also has enough power that I'm never a slouch in traffic. When I'm not towing, the truck will scoot.

In my opinion, the Cummins diesel is one heckuva piece of work. Everything else about the truck is pretty ho-hum. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

RedRocker · Oct 21, 2005

Re: I\'m confused about trucks???

I'm in the same boat with you FWJ, I'd like to park my 97 1 ton Dodge Cummins and commute with something else, but it's just too expensive to keep up another set of wheels. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif What to do, what to do?

jwstewar · Oct 21, 2005

Re: I\'m confused about trucks???

I've got a '99 Silverado 1500 ext. cab shortbed w/ 5.3 V8, 4 sp. auto, 3.73 gears, 4wd w/ rear locker. I've also installed a Pace Edwards locking roll-up tonneau cover. While our Honda was in the body shop last week for the hundredth time, I had to drive the drive back and forth to work. Gave me a chance to recalculate the gas mileage. Hadn't done that in a long time on it. Even w/ 90k on it, it is getting around 19.5 MPG on my 104 mile round trip daily compute that was probably an 80/20 split driving. I've only had a couple of minor repairs to it, would've had a few less if I wouldn't have been doing some things that I shouldn't have. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

PhilNH5 · Oct 21, 2005

Re: I\'m confused about trucks???

Rat,
I have a 2003 Dodge Dakota Quad cab 4x4. I do not need a full size PU and the Dakota was a good size. I was only getting 15 mpg and I do mostly highway miles. I put a bed cap on to haul my dogs and thought mileage would improve but it did not.

Since Katrina and $3 plus for gas I have reduced my driving speed. Before I went AFAP (as fast as possible). Now I never go above 70 mph. My mileage went from the 15 mpg to 18.5 mpg. quite an improvement. But as you noted I could be in a full size PU and get similar or better MPG.

Phil

KentT · Oct 21, 2005

Re: I\'m confused about trucks???

( Oh, I'd so let that Common Rail Diesel get its day in court before jumping down there with a fat wad of Franklins...but thats just my opinion. I know it sounds impressive on paper but.....)

TractorLegend -- I have no idea why you're so negative toward something NEITHER of us have any experience with -- but at least you're consistent....

If you'll notice, I said "and the bugs worked out"... But, if I were trusting someone to bring to market a new, smaller diesel engine -- I'll just say that I wouldn't necessarily put my trust in the "good ole boys" from Detroit ...

BTW, these are proven engines in Europe -- where smaller diesels are common, and there's a much higher percentage of diesel engines because of high fuel costs for years. The injection system is Bosch -- IMO, the best in the business. And FYI -- Detroit Diesel invested heaviliy in the company that makes these -- so they can bring this technology back to the states.

"History" of the Common Rail Diesel

BTW, these reports do sound good -- if the reliability is as good..

Full review

 EDIT Removed copywrited material - please see link Thanks

meledward23 · Oct 21, 2005

Re: I\'m confused about trucks???

Hmmm, just a thought,

A Truck isnt a truck till you put a diesel into it. Until then it is merely a pick'em up....

_RaT_ · Oct 21, 2005

Re: I\'m confused about trucks???

 Why is it that you have to go to a foreign country to get that Toyota crew cab 4x4 pickup with a 4 cylinder diesel that gets fantastic mileage? It is out there and has been for decades, just not in the US. 

The EPA and here in California, the California Air Resources Board or CARB.

CTyler · Oct 21, 2005

Re: I\'m confused about trucks???

My 99 4wd Silverado 5.3 extended cab, auto, programmed, headers, KN w/4:10's gets mid 17mpg on average. Mid 18 straight hwy, 19 on a good day doing the speed limit.

My FIL has a late 90's turbo cummings duelly extended cab 2wd 1 ton and gets 21-22.

My Stepson has a 2001 4wd Ford 1 ton extended cab powerstroke gets 18-19 and he is heavy on the pedal.

jcmseven · Oct 22, 2005

Re: I\'m confused about trucks???

Well, it seems the posters overall are suggesting going with a diesel full size truck (including me). A couple comments I thought about since my last post: first, there is a huge difference between the full size diesels now out and the one that you have owned with regard to daily drivability and manuverabilty. While no one would confuse a big pickup with a sports car, most steer and handle (and ride) better than ever. Second, I suppose making a list of the most important traits would be important. For example, my business partner has a farm with many narrow horse trails and tight spaces on it. He uses his 4wd S10 to run over his property. If I were to ask HIM whether a Ford, Dodge or Chevy 3/4 ton or dually diesel would work for him, he of course would say, "No!!!" They simply are too big. This illustrates an important point to me, that being meeting the need you have. If that need is to have the best overall truck, the new diesels are tough to beat, and they generally resale great. Also, the "big three" now seem to have their act together making super high quality powerful machines that are pretty nice to drive too. I think many of the foreign compacts and mid sizes are good machines too, but having myself spent no money on unscheduled maintenence for my nearly four year old truck, I do not feel I could have done better going with another brand, so choose based on these facts and the features offered by each vehicle. Best of luck.

John M

_RaT_ · Oct 22, 2005

Re: I\'m confused about trucks???

You are correct John. While I still want a pickup, a compact would suffice for most of my work but of course, there are times when a full size would be more handy and of course able to tow rental equipment that requires a 3/4 ton or better to rent. For example a Bobcat skidsteer or Ditch Witch ride on trencher. I do appreciate the responses. I have driven a 04 Dodge 1 ton 2WD with a manual from Reno to Las Vegas pulling a 36' trailer. Mileage was about 14 mpg at best. Thanks, Mark