i'm baackk

[johara1]

Re: i\'m baackk

mr, now i started to fabricate the changes to the attachments, just put on a cutting edge. 40.00 steiner 1/4 thick high carbon steel. now i'm making skids that are adj. for height, then add stiffners to the bucket.terry said it would bend if you do a lot of prying with it. then the ripper, that should do for now /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[ernemats]

Re: i\'m baackk

What all did you get for attachments? I'm glad you had a good trip going down to get your tractor , it is a nice but long trip but worth the while. They treat you good and let you try what you want.. It would be nice if all pt purchasers could make the trip.

 

[Kaon99]

Re: i\'m baackk

Here's a dumb question about the new 2003 pt425: If the 2003 pt425 has stronger wheel motors and nothing else has been changed, won't there be less power for the mower on hills ? It seems to me that unless the total power output has somehow been increased that somthing has to give.

Since I bought one of the last of the old pt425's, I was a little put out that Power-Trac keep the new model pt425 a secret. However, I have tested my pt425 on the slopes on my property (15-20 degree slopes) and I definitely have all the wheel power I need (without the mower going). When the grass starts to grow in the spring I will do the test again with the 60" mower on and report back. I will be interested to hear how the new pt425's do on slopes with a 60" mower going.

So far for me, wheel torque has not been an issue. In the work I have done pulling logs out of my lake, I lose power from wheel spin and not lack of pulling power.

Since there is no local dealer service for my pt425, it is comforting to know a bunch of guys (like Mossroad) have a machine exactly like mine. It is a small consolation, I guess, for missing out on a beefier machine.

Ken in Mississippi

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Re: i\'m baackk

<font color="red"> If the 2003 pt425 has stronger wheel motors and nothing else has been changed, won't there be less power for the mower on hills ? </font>

Certainly seems logical, unless they slow down the ground speed or the motors are significantly more efficient, which seems unlikely.

 

[MossRoad]

Re: i\'m baackk

So, we have a base 25HP comming out of the engine. The pumps for the mower and wheels are seperate. I figure(and that's asking alot) that as long as the wheels aren't loading down the engine, the mower won't be affected. Once the wheels start loading the engine down, then there will be less HP available to drive the mower(PTO) pump OR if the mower starts loading down the engine, there will be less HP available for the wheel pump(works both ways, right?).

So, how do they get more torque out to the wheel motors without affecting the top speed of the tractor? Different motors? More efficient motors? If someone could come up with the old motor model numbers and the new motor model numbers we could figure it out. Did someone say that they are manufactured by WHITE? If so, here is a link to their website. We can request a free catalog.

Or, if you don't want specifics, the next time someone visits Power Trac, ask them, without specific numbers and such, to explain how the motors can provide more torque, yet maintain the top speed.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: i\'m baackk

Charlie - your right they do it by slowing down the ground speed - with larger displacement wheel motors - there is always a trade off - otherwise you would have to change the pump - the motors could be more efficient also - I think the series I have on the 425 get some blow by when running hot and put under stress like climbing a steep hill full throttle with the mower running - I notice that in the cold pushing snow the wheel motors will stall the engine before reaching a limit - but not in the summer climbing steep hills while mowing-
I asked Terry if they changed the pump and he said no
so i said that the only other option is to increase displacement which means less speed and he said that is what they did - he mentioned 7mph - I would guess 6-7 - to get a really get a significant change in torque vs mine - rated at 8mph -

Maybe there are different pump settings that can be used as well - I think the Eaton wheel motors on the 1430 and 1845 etc - are just superior motors - they seem much stronger and are alot more quiet.

As far a figuring out - specs - if everyone recalls last fall - I went around and around on this in one or two threads - I even spoke with White several times - it always led back to PT - White told me that we can't try and fish our way through and back into the specs based on advertised ground speed and tire size - He told me to just call PT and get all the model numbers and specs for the White wheel motors and Eaton pump

I tried again - and got nowhere with PT - thats when I got frustrated and just bought the 1845 - what frustrates me is that they really didn't seem to think the torque on steep hills was a problem - and now I realize that they were aware and in fact designing a fix which they incorporated in this years model - would not have changed my mind on the 1845 - it just would have been nice to have this information in my decision making process

Oh well - They are how they are

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Re: i\'m baackk

Ed:
I have resigned myself to PT's secrecy. They simply will not say what they're working on, although in November Hans, John Coxon & I were given a rare glimpse of a possible fix for the chaff ingestion. I can't fault the policy, since it's purely their choice. We'd all be a bit more comfortable, however, if they'd simply say "We're not going to tell you that," instead of vague promises that we'll hear something, folowed by silence.
The trick, I suppose, is just not to ask questions unless they bear directly on warranty work. That way, you won't expect answers or be disappointed.
Nah - that wouldn't fit our developing PT-User profiles. Keep bugging them.

 

[davesisk]

Re: i\'m baackk

Nah - that wouldn't fit our developing PT-User profiles. Keep bugging them.

Charlie, I couldn't agree more. If enough people ask for something or point out the same problem, they are much more likely to respond. "The squeaky wheels gets a greasin'", so they say!

Dave

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: i\'m baackk

I'm relatively confident that the wheel motors on the last year's PT 425 and my PT 422 are White RS Series Code 200 12.5 cubic inch displacement motors. I note that the back of the wheel motor housing on mine has "Roller Stator" imprinted on it. This is a trademarked term for White - so I'm sure they are manufactured by White. Visually they are identical to the RS series shown at the White web site. I actually pulled off a front wheel and took dimensions on one of the motors. The length dimension (6.29 inches) indicates that it is the 12.5 cubic inch (code 200) unit.

Some back-of-the-envelope calculations show that with the maximum torque these motors are rated at (3050 lb-inch) and assuming the tractor, rider, and attachment weigh approximately 1600 lbs. the tractor can only climb hills up to approximately 20 degrees. I believe someone else calculated about the same number in a previous post which I can't find right now.

I assume that Power Trac is attempting to improve the torque for hill climbing and also to beef up the lateral load capability with the new wheel motors. The way they could improve torque without changing pump displacement or speed is to increase the relief valve pressure setting. My guess is that the new wheel motors have the same displacement but a higher pressure rating. Although I can't determine the specific pump used for the wheel drive, most variable displacement pumps I've seen are rated at 3000 psi. Using the old wheel motors the reliefs must be set at 1750 to 2000 psi. I'm assuming that with the new wheel motors they upped that setting to a point still within the capability of the pump to provide additional torque.

By the way, I agree that no matter what they did to the motors, it is still going to take approximately the same engine horsepower to climb the same hill at the same speed. I think they were just trying to overcome the problem with the wheel motor reliefs lifting while the engine still had power to use.

 

[johara1]

Re: i\'m baackk

they are white,the new ones have more volume=more torque.this will give you more power to the mower. the engine doesn't have too work as hard with the travel. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif