Idiots and winter driving

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

Here's a fun fact, it's illegal in Ohio to use your wipers WITHOUT having your headlights on.

Never heard of anyone getting pulled over for this but I learned it a long time ago.

Also it's illegal to drive a car without a seatbelt in Ohio but I can legally ride a motorcycle with no helmet. Riddle me that lol

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

For sure that.. not even a question.

What are you saying here? I had a lifted big loud truck about 5 years ago.

It was a 1985 F150 with a 5in lift and 33in mud tires, had a 302v8 out of a 88 mustang that had a cam, duel flowmaster exhaust with no cats. 4x4 with low range and a 4:11 rear.

Soooooo? What are you implying? Lol

 

[2ndhalf]

What are you saying here? I had a lifted big loud truck about 5 years ago.

It was a 1985 F150 with a 5in lift and 33in mud tires, had a 302v8 out of a 88 mustang that had a cam, duel flowmaster exhaust with no cats. 4x4 with low range and a 4:11 rear.

Soooooo? What are you implying? Lol

I think the evidence is clear... by your own admission!

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

I think the evidence is clear... by your own admission!

Pfft!!! I paid $1400 for the truck, used it as a mudding truck, was really fun, had it for 2 years and sold it for $1500 after dumping $1000 or more into it. I had 2 trucks and a car at that time, non with loud exhausts other than the 85.

 

[2ndhalf]

The only think more indicitive of SPS is if one were a mudder! Were you ever a Mudder?

 

[Garandman]

And all he had to do is get off the breaks and steer - could have avoided it.

No Season tires: another "I don't need snow tires I have AWD" disciple.

 

[RoyJackson]

What part of this do you not understand ? Stuck following Fourway flashers on the highway in a storm vs passing a slow vehicle using four way flashers in clear weather .

Some state require use of 4 way flashers if traveling below 40 MPH (on a highway), regardless of the weather

 

[Garandman]

Turns out hazard light use while moving varies by state. Hazard Light Use - AAA Digest of Motor Laws

Allowed in CT, ME, NY, PA and VT for example. Not allowed in MA, NH, RI. Some allow use conditionally: slow speed, hazard, or emergency.

Headlight laws: Headlight Use - AAA Digest of Motor Laws

In MA and some other states headlights are required "during any other period when visibility is reduced to 500 feet by atmospheric conditions, such as rain, snow, fog, or when wipers are in use." In some other states it's 1,000 feet.

Studded tire laws: Studded Tires - AAA Digest of Motor Laws

 

[aeblank]

I work at what amounts to an engineering firm/design house.
It's very entertaining to me the HIGH percentage of snow tires in the parking lot.
I bet we're at 2/3, and of the remaining they're still decent tires (on trucks/SUVs).

I really should do a count..

 

[Deere Dude]

What are you saying here? I had a lifted big loud truck about 5 years ago.

It was a 1985 F150 with a 5in lift and 33in mud tires, had a 302v8 out of a 88 mustang that had a cam, duel flowmaster exhaust with no cats. 4x4 with low range and a 4:11 rear.

Soooooo? What are you implying? Lol

Loved the loud ones. I had a 1978 F250 4WD stick shift on the floor with a substantial lift kit, big tires, a 390 with an RV cam, dual headers and cherry bomb glass pacs coming out by the passenger door. I haven't hear of a nicer sounding truck in a loong time. I bought a 5th wheel camper that weighed 10,000 loaded and that truck really snorted empty, much less pulling. I got a lot of OMG's with that truck.
At least people know enough to get out of the way when you hear that thing coming down the road.

It had luggy tires and one day we had a foot or so of snow on the flat. I was doing a test to see what I could go through so I left in in 2wd and drove as far into a field as i could before the truck stopped. I turned the 4WD on and it just sat there with the front and back spinning. I had to get my other truck to pull that out. The stopping is what got me into trouble, or maybe it was the playing around.

I would have had more fun driving it if the suspension wasn't so stiff.

Now I have a sissy sounding diesel.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Someone said there were four hundred accidents in Toronto this morning. One of the first snow events of the season. I wonder if this was four hundred separate mishaps or just a few involving dozens of vehicles?

Brain dead, non thinking zombie drivers!

 

[square1]

Someone said there were four hundred accidents in Toronto this morning. One of the first snow events of the season. I wonder if this was four hundred separate mishaps or just a few involving dozens of vehicles?

Brain dead, non thinking zombie drivers!

Guess none of them had loud pipes :laughing:

 

[check]

Someone said there were four hundred accidents in Toronto this morning. One of the first snow events of the season. I wonder if this was four hundred separate mishaps or just a few involving dozens of vehicles?

Brain dead, non thinking zombie drivers!

I believe it. First serious snow of the season (6 inches) last night here in Toronto, and the temp this morning was close to freezing, so slippery conditions. Drove home from the cottage in it last night, and it was a slippery kind of snow. (Unlike up North, where it was nice and cold, and the snow was sticky with that nice "crunchy" sound when you drive on it. It will be -25 Celsius up there Thursday night!)

 

[zzvyb6]

Just for the record:

Hazard Light Use - AAA Digest of Motor Laws

And also, REAL winter tires are very different than M&S or Summer designated tires because of tread compound ("the rubber stuff"). There is more natural rubber in it and the hydrophilic property differences are huge. Yes, the tread design is also a factor.

And just for the record, tests (as in actual tests on road surfaces of all different types) on ice, snow and water don't show substantial differences for skidsteer tires that are grooved or siped after the fact,for very good reasons based on sound physics and chemistry: Its the rubber stuff again. In deep wet packable snow, there can be a small traction improvement, but the effective surface friction coefficient is nowhere near what a real snow tire can do.

The downside of REAL snow tires is worse fuel economy (rolling resistance) and tire longevity (treadlife). Sorry to have to inform all them there backyard injineers, but real tire engineers at all the tire development centers know this. And I've been one of them. A traction test trailer is all you need and a hockey rink to end the rumors, legends, and tales. (Along with lots of tires to test).

And, btw: 4wheel drive is just that. Everybody has 4wheel stop, but because of required brake proportioning (F to R), you don't really ever get to use max rear brake. And ABS beats 'pumping the brake pedal' EVERY time, but you have to engage ABS by pressing the pedal HARD. Nobody can 'pump it up' 10 --> 15 times per second. NOBODY.

 

[buickanddeere]

Guess none of them had loud pipes :laughing:

Four way flashers would have also prevented all those wrecks.

 

[Egon]

Just for the record:

Hazard Light Use - AAA Digest of Motor Laws

And also, REAL winter tires are very different than M&S or Summer designated tires because of tread compound ("the rubber stuff"). There is more natural rubber in it and the hydrophilic property differences are huge. Yes, the tread design is also a factor.

And just for the record, tests (as in actual tests on road surfaces of all different types) on ice, snow and water don't show substantial differences for skidsteer tires that are grooved or siped after the fact,for very good reasons based on sound physics and chemistry: Its the rubber stuff again. In deep wet packable snow, there can be a small traction improvement, but the effective surface friction coefficient is nowhere near what a real snow tire can do.

The downside of REAL snow tires is worse fuel economy (rolling resistance) and tire longevity (treadlife). Sorry to have to inform all them there backyard injineers, but real tire engineers at all the tire development centers know this. And I've been one of them. A traction test trailer is all you need and a hockey rink to end the rumors, legends, and tales. (Along with lots of tires to test).

And, btw: 4wheel drive is just that. Everybody has 4wheel stop, but because of required brake proportioning (F to R), you don't really ever get to use max rear brake. And ABS beats 'pumping the brake pedal' EVERY time, but you have to engage ABS by pressing the pedal HARD. Nobody can 'pump it up' 10 --> 15 times per second. NOBODY.

What?? Facts?? Test results ?? Come on, my cousins sister has a brother that knows ABS just ain't faster and he's got snow tire's that last forever.

 

[Garandman]

Here's the report detailing the obsolescence of studded tires compared to modern friction tires.

https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/research/reports/fullreports/551.1.pdf

From the standpoint of
traction alone, studded tires, when new, often provide some benefit over other tire types on ice-covered roads when the temperature is near freezing. However, the advent of the new studless tires has diminished the marginal benefit, and recent studies suggest that the infrequent, narrow range of conditions necessary for benefit from studded tires may not outweigh their detrimental effect on traction in dry or wet conditions on certain pavement types. In addition, a host of primary and secondary safety factors are related to studded tire use, many of which are very difficult to quantify, including facets of driver behavior and safety perception.

 

[Wagtail]

What part of this do you not understand ? Stuck following Fourway flashers on the highway in a storm vs passing a slow vehicle using four way flashers in clear weather .

I understand your point of view perfectly well, Mate. You hate hazard lights, albeit under certain situations and conditions. Fine.

I'd also like to thank you for this discussion. For now on, whenever I see someone with their hazard lights 'on' or I myself engage my hazard lights on any of my vehicles, I'll spare a thought for you... and smile.

 

[Howling]