I need to automate my bale handling

[Robert_in_NY]

Robert I'll address one thing the other thread didn't. Every person I've ever talked to about the single bale unload says its near useless.

If you think roading and unloading a stack eats into the productivity, the single bale unload ties the machine up for the time to unload. It could hobble a SP to slower than a towed model unloading into stacks.

I've been struggling with the same types of issues. As a cheap step this year I put a chute on my baler this year so a couple of people riding the wagon could easily stack. It worked out great, the wagons hold more than a thrower filled one, its not as dusty as setting a guy catching thrower bales and I only stop to swap wagons.

The other wagon goes back to the barn behind a truck or other tractor.

If I had a grapple on the other tractor it could unstack that wagon and have it back by the time the next was full.

I looked at running a bale wagon and it could work too but the drawbacks I see:

-Baling around bales in the field. You have a thrower so you don't have to worry but this is a pain with ground dropping in the east with our narrow raking.

-Time to pick up bales if I am stuck working on my own one day.

-Stacks, its too wet here to leave stacks outside. I don't have buildings to accommodate etc etc.

If you are just using the machine to accumulate stacks and set at the edge of the field, why not use an accumulator which lets the guy in the tractor do that himself freeing up a tractor and person.

I will second the fellow talking about a dolly for your flatbed trailer. They are great for stacking on and will hold 600+ bales. Thats almost 3 wagons there. I saw a dolly for sale locally for 150$ last month.

I see a few guys with accumulators using skidsteers to load with, and forklifts at their barns. I don't know what other equipment you have from the orchards but it may cross over.

When I have to put hay up in a loft I don't mind taking a little more time to unload as the guys in the loft need to be able to keep up. The idea behind it for me is that I can unload the bales mechanically still and help the guys stacking. So if it worked then great but if it doesn't work well then there is no sense keying on the 1034 or 1038.

It would be nice if I did go with an accumulator to just use the flatbeds. 4 of them will allow me to handle my most busy day and I could park 4 of them inside a 40' wide barn without any trouble to be unloaded the next day. Or I could have my friend bring his truck over and haul them to my customers barn so I could unload them there into their barn. It is an idea that I will have to weigh out which is the entire purpose of this discussion. I am looking for ideas and feedback on the different systems so I can find a system good for my operation.

 

[jimg]

In my view putting hay above ground level is a completely separate problem. Theres no way to completely mechanize or make it quick. Coupled w/ a single piece of machinery (the stack wagon) it sure has the potential to make a slow operation even slower. At least w/ wagons you can get a days load all done at once and under cover for later unloading, plus roading would be quicker. That, of course, all changes if you have access to a large single level hay barn. Guess there no chance youd think of putting up a pole barn for your hay?

 

[slowzuki]

I'm pretty sure he is putting up a new barn to suit the new equipment. I think the stacking is customers. There are limits to what you can do to encourage them to upgrade facilities.

I know I encouraged a neighbour to put a big enough door in her new loft so a grapple could unload a trailer and set the hay in the opening.

The flatbeds are a real asset that may help make a less risky choice.

I don't think the single unload is the worst but you'd need at least two stackwagons with the feature to get any kind of speed. The way I figure it would be about 50 bales an hour using it. I can't pencil out the diesel costs and operator wages on that.

In my view putting hay above ground level is a completely separate problem. Theres no way to completely mechanize or make it quick. Coupled w/ a single piece of machinery (the stack wagon) it sure has the potential to make a slow operation even slower. At least w/ wagons you can get a days load all done at once and under cover for later unloading, plus roading would be quicker. That, of course, all changes if you have access to a large single level hay barn. Guess there no chance youd think of putting up a pole barn for your hay?

 

[Robert_in_NY]

In my view putting hay above ground level is a completely separate problem. Theres no way to completely mechanize or make it quick. Coupled w/ a single piece of machinery (the stack wagon) it sure has the potential to make a slow operation even slower. At least w/ wagons you can get a days load all done at once and under cover for later unloading, plus roading would be quicker. That, of course, all changes if you have access to a large single level hay barn. Guess there no chance youd think of putting up a pole barn for your hay?

It is already in discussion on the ag talk board. I started a new thread related to my bale handling thread. In it I am asking for discussion on a pole shed for hay storage and getting ideas. It is something else I am considering and if I automate my process I am going to need to put the hay somewhere designed to handle the bale grapple.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

This is a great discussion for me as I anticipate seeking just such labor savers for my square baling here in the mountains of VA in a couple of years.

I was originally going to just have the thread on Ag talk but then I was thinking a lot of guys on here might like to follow the discussion which is why I posted this one with a link to the other.

I do know I will not be haying next year if I have to do things like I am this year and years past. I can't help my workers like I use to and if I can't help them it really bothers me as I like to work with them so they know I am not afraid to do the hard work. I know if I work next to them they will have more respect for me then if all they see is me driving around in a newer truck (I know how I would look to them). In years past if my thrower would break down I would work in the wagon stacking while my helper ran the baler. When I got tired she would switch spots with me and we would just go about the day till the hay was all up. Now I feel bad as my thrower belt died on me the other day and I didn't have time to drive the 2 hour trip to get it so she was stuck in the wagon by herself till I could get more help to relieve her.

I really do not like working my guys too hard so if I can automate things I know I will have an easier time getting help and I won't mind asking friends to help if all they need to do is either drive a truck or run a tractor or stack wagon.

However, in the end when I run the numbers for this year, figure out what I will have to invest in new equipment, factor in the new barn (which we need another barn) and total everything up and if it gets to the point I need to spend $50k to keep haying I would rather spend that money on other aspects of my farm like expanding the vineyard or updating my equipment. I already have to spend close to $40k for a new vineyard tractor this winter. But hopefully others will be able to learn from this thread even if I decide not to keep haying.

 

[radman1]

Your thinking of the bale bandit and from what I have read and heard from others it is very expensive (if memory is right around $50k) and it isn't very reliable and has poor customer service as there are no local dealers. Basically, you give them a bunch of money, they send you the machine with a card that says "Good Luck"

When I first heard about it and researched it I thought it was a great idea. I still think it is a great idea but the cost of it makes it unreasonable. If it was more reliable with better support I could see the cost being justified a bit more but right now it is a big gamble.

Yes, it was the bale bandit. Same blue color and appearance.

 

[kidr]

I bought a used Haymaster accumulator and grapple.I liked the versatility.Pull behind baler or atv or utv.It was out of adjustment ,so I ordered a manual that turned out to be next to useless.I was ready to cut it up for scrap when I got a call from their tech.He delivered a unit nearby and asked how mine was working.when i said I had problems he came right over.we spent 2 or 3 hrs. going over the machine making adustments, and discussing modifications I could do myself to upgrade the accumulator.The unit was originally sold by a dealer ,not haymaster itself ,so the tech said it was never adjusted properly to begin with. he gave me his cell # and said to call if I had any more problems in the field. All this for no charge, and I didn't even buy the machine from them.!!!! If you buy a new one the tech delivers it ,sets it up and shows you how to use it properly.Great customer sevice and support by any standard.They even swapped a tire and rim because mine was flat.They want the machine working right because their name and phone are right on the thing, and it's good advertising....I'm very impressed with these guys.....Gave him a nice tip

 

[Renze]

I just dropped in here, in this thread, so maybe it has been discussed yet:

Why not just use big square bales, and handle them with a spike on the front loader ??
We used to have a lot of small bales, but because all of us have daytime jobs, and the one who doesnt (my father) is 65 and has arthritis...

Since i have my front loader, we buy all straw in big bales, stacked and covered under a heavy tarp from an open bed truck.
All hay we grow, and the hay we buy, is wrapped and stacked outside.


Do you need the hay for yourself or to sell to horse owners ? Individual horse owners might not want big bales because they cant hold em on a wheelbarrow, but if its four yourself: You can just take flakes of a big square bale like you do on a small bale. We have a big wheelbarrow for feeding, and just load bale flakes on it by hand. When the feed is more hay than silage, you can do this without the risk of smelly clothes when feeding the horses before going to church on sunday morning.

We pick up a bale from the stack and put one in front of the stable with the front loader, from where we carry the feed in the barn with the large flatbed wheelbarrow.
We make large square bales and wrap them, even if the feed is dry enough to go unwrapped: the logistics is so much easier with wrapped bales, if the contractor came late at night to bale and wrap, they can stay in the field untill i have time to pick them up after work, even if it rains all night


If it was hay for yourself only (not selling to horse owners) you'd be buying a big square baler for the price of one of these stacker wagons, so it doesnt require more investment than a bale fork on your frontloader, and 2 or 3 cheap flatbed bale wagons.
This method is more flexible and more reliable overall, with wrapped, or unwrapped bales.

 

[jimg]

I missed the pole barn thread then. I think thats a great idea too and would go well with either the stack wagon or grapple/accumulator. Although I think in the long run the later would be more flexible and efficient. Guess you have to balance the cost of running thru the field more than once w/ being able to load/unload completely w/ machines.

 

[slowzuki]

I know you're in an isolated area Robert but swapping some fields to corn or grains for a few years might be an option. Not sure how busy your falls are but it can spread the work over a bit more time. The big limit is access to custom combining. I would hate to buy a combine for just a few acres.

If I were in your position, I'd get a dolly for your trailers, a cheap ground drag accumulator, a grapple and try it for a year. I'd sell the thrower racks and thrower since you know you can't go back to that with your back. If the ground drag works ok but you have the usual ground drag problems, search for a kuhns. If it works terrible sell it and you haven't lost any money really.

My problem is I can't stand fields going idle so I'd have to have a plan for what to do with the fields such as crops or round baling and finding new customers. With a 5x5 baler you'd be able to put up 2000 square bales equivalent on your own in a day. Just doesn't make you money like that many squares.

But hopefully others will be able to learn from this thread even if I decide not to keep haying.