I know nothing and I need some help..

[revlis240]

Hey guys,
I grew up in the city and while I could tell you a ton about cars and motorcycles, I know pretty much nothing about tractors. Just the other day I learned what a PTO is. Anyway, long story short, we just purchased ~11 acres of land that I need to park a few hundred cars on. The cars wont be moving that often. Some sit for 1 year, others move in weeks.

Currently the property has a TON of semi hard soil, appears rocky in some areas, and dirt in others and there is grass...everywhere..along with weeds here and there.

Shared photo of the property - Google Photos

So I contacted some local paving companies and over the next few months and years they will be dumping recycled asphalt onto the property. But my question is, what sort of preparation do I need to do to the soil before the asphalt grindings arrive? I tried to read as much as I could but after a week of research I still dont have a solid plan, hence this post.

I have read everything from use roundup to kill the grass, then use a tiller and then use a chain, and then compact roller to some PTO whose name I cant remember but it does it all in 1 go. The property came with an ATV, a 1950s ford gasoline tractor with a mower PTO. I dont mind spending up to $5k on the right tools if I have to?

I really dont know what the heck I need. I need to get an acre taken care of ASAP. I would certainly appreciate some help as after the purchase, I have little money left over to pay someone tens of thousands of dollars to make this happen.

Thanks in advance

Abe in California

 

[dragoneggs]

Welcome! Sounds to me like you need to go get opinions and quotes from a few local paving/surfacing outfits, landscapers, etc. Not sure you will save money by doing a one time project by yourself unless you have the equipment. Others will surely chime in but are you wanting to DIY and maintain or just get this adventure up and running most economically?

 

[zimbo]

Hi Abe

I think all you really need is a flat area to park cars on, with out them getting lost in weeds.
I wouldn't worry about the whole area, rather plan out your roads and use a 3 point grader to level them out if needed, from your pic it doesnt look like you have to do much at all. The area your going to use 1st can be sprayed with round up, but the grasses will come back. in a while.
The 3 point grader / scraper will help level the asphalt grindings but a box blade may be easier.
If you start digging up the soil you'll just make it harder to move cars around, so leave it, spread the asphalt on top and buy a knapsack sprayer and spray the grass around the cars once or twice a year. The areas you aren't using mow with the tractor if its running ok. Keep it simple and cheap!

 

[stuckmotor]

:welcome:
If you intend to have questions about your Ford it'll be good to add it's model to it's description. There were several models produced in the 50's with different features and capabilities. Also, some of us are just curious as to what you're driving. The following link might help. http://www.oldfordtractors.com/identify.htm

 

[Cord]

Personally, I'd start with a D5 to strip the top soil then a large frame excavator to load the soil into off road dump truck so they can haul it to the stockpile. Then you'll need to cut the sub grade to a point 18-24" below finished grade. Bring in several thousand yards of engineered fill to get you to 8" below finished grade. You'll need a padded drum compactor to compact the subgrade to 90% proctor. The geotechnical engineer will tell you when you get there. Of course, if the ground is too dry you'll need a water truck to increase the moisture content. If it's too wet you'll have to disk or add lime. When you get to top dresssing things will go pretty quickly because the grader will be tied into a laser grading system. That's all that's needed for a 11ac parking lot.

Oh, don't forget over 1/4 acre disturbed will require an erosion control plan with inspection reports after every rain event. You'll also need to construct a detention pond with infiltration and aquatics. This is assuming your civil engineer can surface flow to the pond. If the grades don't work, then you'll be looking at storm sewers.

This being a commercial venture (storing a few hundred cars certainly is) you'll need to check the zoning. Hopefully you won't need a conditional use permit. If so, then the civil engineer can represent your interest before the numberous common council meetings. Of course, some communities also require parking lots be landscaped or screened so you could be looking at several hundred trees as well.

Typically the engineering fees would run in the $40-50,000 range for a project like this. Proably another $250,000 grand in moving dirt and setting grades.

Notice that I never mentioned using a rototiller and a 60 year old tractor. But I hope I gave you an idea of just what you are proposing to take on for a project.

 

[Alesandro]

^^^WOW^^^

 

[bspeedy]

^^ WOW was my first thought too... until I saw that he is in Santa Clarita, CA. Without getting political, I'll say that all the topics mentioned by Cord could be quite relevant to the OP's situation. Instead of running off half cocked, it might be a good idea to step back and make sure his idea can be made a reality.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Personally, I'd start with a D5 to strip the top soil then a large frame excavator to load the soil into off road dump truck so they can haul it to the stockpile. Then you'll need to cut the sub grade to a point 18-24" below finished grade. Bring in several thousand yards of engineered fill to get you to 8" below finished grade. You'll need a padded drum compactor to compact the subgrade to 90% proctor. The geotechnical engineer will tell you when you get there. Of course, if the ground is too dry you'll need a water truck to increase the moisture content. If it's too wet you'll have to disk or add lime. When you get to top dresssing things will go pretty quickly because the grader will be tied into a laser grading system. That's all that's needed for a 11ac parking lot.

Oh, don't forget over 1/4 acre disturbed will require an erosion control plan with inspection reports after every rain event. You'll also need to construct a detention pond with infiltration and aquatics. This is assuming your civil engineer can surface flow to the pond. If the grades don't work, then you'll be looking at storm sewers.

This being a commercial venture (storing a few hundred cars certainly is) you'll need to check the zoning. Hopefully you won't need a conditional use permit. If so, then the civil engineer can represent your interest before the numberous common council meetings. Of course, some communities also require parking lots be landscaped or screened so you could be looking at several hundred trees as well.

Typically the engineering fees would run in the $40-50,000 range for a project like this. Proably another $250,000 grand in moving dirt and setting grades.

Notice that I never mentioned using a rototiller and a 60 year old tractor. But I hope I gave you an idea of just what you are proposing to take on for a project.

Well put. Lots of wanna be civil engineers on this board but very few actual ones. Stormwater and permitting are HUGE concerns. I think you left out the PNDI and historical checks not to mention the potential brownfield/clean up issues from existing conditions. Just to add a little more fuel to the fire. :stirthepot:

 

[MikeInEburg]

If you move forward, consider a pervious surface to allow rainfall to soak in rather than running off.

 

[revlis240]

Hello all!
Thank you for all the replies! I will figure out what the tractor is and get back to you.

Regarding the rather detailed and expensive solution, while I appreciate the input, even the planning desk confirmed I dont need any of that. They said gravel it and park. Why? Because the property is actually not in the city. its just outside the city, in unincorporated LA county. That to me is worth its weight in gold to not be governed by such strict standards. I have found that the county is far easier to deal with than any city.

Anyway, I will keep it as simple as I can. I would like to get some thoughts on leaving the grass/soil as it is, getting some roundup to kill the grass and laying the recycled asphalt straight on top if it. Then kill whatever comes though the RAP with further roundup treatments. Is this a terrible plan?

Seems the best way forward at the moment? I do not have $50k let alone $250k to spend on this topic.

Thanks again!

 

[dragoneggs]

I think I would scrape the the surface and level it out nicely and gain some fill at the least before I started dumping regrind, etc on it. The topsoil could be used as a berm or water diversion or other future use. Seems that would be a nice improvement.

Curious... is this a business adventure?

 

[revlis240]

Its a business we have operated for the past 9 years with good success. Its an internet based used car dealership. Clients see the cars online and make an appointment to come buy the car if they like what they see online. We out grew our current warehouse based setup and needed a large place to park all of our ~250 cars in one spot. Although a bit more rural than I would honestly prefer, the set up here will serve our needs well once we get it all done. Would it be nice to have a paved and well lit parking lot on the site? Sure. But I dont have an extra $500k lying around.

 

[FredH]

I think a box blade with rippers would be all that you would need . Size it for the h.p. of your tractor and good to go . Could spray the weeds before the grindings , though the weeds will die , they would still be standing there unlike mowing them . My only concern is the grindings . Any EPA or State regulations on run-off containment , etc.... . Your state is **** on regulations and all though there may not be any County rules , State laws will also apply .

Fred H.

 

[boggen]

when folks are talking about ripping off the top layer of sod and a bit deeper, then coming back and compacting it, and then adding some additional dirt to build it backup. the reason being, is generally the top few inches of dirt/soil does not support weight very well. the end result you park a vehicle. and it sinks, even if you toss gravel on top of the dirt, the vehicle just sinks. getting the correct compaction far enough down, and making sure the compaction stays "compacted" enough as you get back up to given point. helps to ensure when you park vehicles, they do not sink.

example of sinking anyone that has 3pt hitch implement and dropped it off in the dirt, or on some gravel, for a couple months normally has to lift it out of the rock/dirt.
another example would be a trailer nothing on it, seating and it sinking some.

for asphalt or concrete. with out a good compaction below will result in it all cracking, and getting "pot holes" all over the place. end result for you, possibly needing a tow truck vehicles to pull them out of ruts. and/or walking through puddles of nasty water.

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11 acres. and just amount of vehicles. and dealing with rain. any sort of oil, fuel, grease, battery acid, coolant. has to be taken into account. and most likely EPA and like will have rules/regs that state this or that. in how large of a containment system you need in place. to handle the rain and the run off water. so the oil, fuel, grease, battery acid, coolant, etc... does not flow out off your property or less it has been contained and dealt with.

example: nightmare farmer of a neighbor i use to have. had cattle, pigs, sheep... he would let the manure (poo) accumulate up so much, that it ended up like a creak in itself of just pure poop, running down ditches and into creaks. creak water was floating poop water.

with vehicles, you are bond to have an engine leak, transmission leak, coolant leak, etc.... and you need to have proper drainage to route the run off water to go through some sort of "pond" area that treats / filters the water before it runs off your property. folks including myself are saying pond, due to trying to handle 11 acres of rain through pre built containers = past the large size of containers to make it worth while to buy pre-built containers. a pond will more likely have the "capacity" to handle small rains, but more importantly what ever the EPA / state regulations require for you to handle for "total amount of possible rain".

there are various DIY ways to make ponds / retention ponds.
Koiphen.com = liner ponds
Pond Boss Magazine: PondBoss Magazine = clay / mud/dirt ponds
look at sewer ponds / chemical liner ponds. the liners can be cheap pending on material you use. but takes equipment to dig it out and level it, and compact it.
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getting proper grade of the acreage so run off water goes were you want it to, along with any ditches, and/or drain pipe work and/or culverts. most likely will be needed. so you do not end up with a swamp and flooded vehicles when it does rain. ((more referring to cars sinking and are in low spots within the acerage))

most parking lots at large stores, example walmart, menards, home depot, kroger, etc... the parking lots are not actually pure flat. but have high spots. and then low spots and in low spots are were drain pipes run, to help carry the water away.

trying to state that when it rains all water sinks directly into the ground is not going to get you far. the run off water still needs to be accounted for. and sloping and dealing with the run off water.

pending on local codes, you maybe able to use cheaper culvert pipes connected together for your piping. if you want to use entire area, or put in ditches to direct water were it needs to be routed off to.

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not sure if putting down a geotextile fabric for rock / shavings would work.
not sure if you could contact a company that can come out and do soil tests and find out what needs to be added. to transform your soil into a concrete like substance.