Hydraulics question

Ym1401King · Nov 12, 2002

I know that this has been asked before, but for me, I have a quick question. Let me preface this with saying that I know little about hydraulics. I am considering adding a loader to my YM1401, but I need the divide block with the outlet, and to know what are the parameters on the system. It says that it has a working pressure of 1565 psi. But what are the gpms?

Help.

Aric

EFC · Nov 12, 2002

depends on RPM and pump condition but 2 to 4GPM.

Ym1401King · Nov 13, 2002

Can I get the divider block or whatever is needed to connect to the hydraulics supply and make this system work?

Aric

DavesTractor · Nov 13, 2002

You have an open center hydraulic system. The pump volume is adequate to run a loader. One good way to tap into the system is to cut the smaller (pressure) line coming off the pump and install a compression fitting and run that line up to the loader valve. Come out of the valve back down to the tractor line that you cut and connect with another compression fitting. This makes a "loop" where the pressure runs through the valve, and when the valve is activated, it diverts flow to the appropriate ram. You can also use 3 lines and a power-beyond, but this is simple and works with the correct valve.

Warnings: If you hook it up wrong and deadhead the pump, it will ruin the pump in about 2 seconds. Sometimes you get lucky and only shear a key.

This tractor will be unstable with a loader. You will have to ballast the rear a lot. If it is a 2wd (no "D"), you will notice a loss of traction because of the weigh on the front and consequently transferred off the rear.

I have 2 really nice YM1401's in stock and I will not install loaders on them for safety reasons. Perhaps if you got a real light loader and sized the rams down, or regulated the pressure to keep the maximum lift down you would be ok. On a short wheelbase narrow tractor, you must really watch the rollover potential. The tractor weighs about 1100lbs, a decent loader like a Koyker 110 weighs about 600 with brackets and bucket, so we have a total of about 1700 lbs, most forward. The bucket will lift nearly 1000lbs. If you have it lifted high and get on a small slope or drop a tire into a rut, you are going to roll. Be careful!

jimstractors · Nov 13, 2002

Dave's right about being careful with a loader on a 1401d. If its not 4wd, we don't put loaders on them. But I have sold over a dozen 1401d's WITH loaders this year. We put one on with a 42" wide bucket, NOT 48". I always stress to the customer about weighting the rear. (put concrete blocks on the box scraper, fill the rear tires with liquid, move them as far out as possible, pump the fronts to 30 psi, keep the load LOW when traveling, and don't load the bucket full if its sand, dirt or gravel. And go SLOW, especially down hill. Lots of guys on this board have 1401's with loaders. If you want a digital pic of the hydraulic tap in, let me know.
Jim

Ym1401King · Nov 13, 2002

I am using weights that are fabricated by the plan builder. If you want to see his weights, here is the web site, and loader plans.

http://www.p.f.engineering.50megs.com

The loader is intended for garden tractors, but should work great for this tractor. I am adding either 3 or 4 of the weights that he has there. I made an adapter that mounts to my 3-pt that holds the weights. I would however like the digital picture of the hydraulic tie in. I also want to be able to use the 3-pt up and down while the loader is on. I am actually thinking of using something else instead of the loader. Here is the web site for it. I will make my own. This seems a lot safer. www.johnnybucket.com He has the johnny bucket there that mounts to the 3-pt and is in essence multipurpose tool, for carrying, pushing dirt, grading dirt, and whatever you please. I already have 160 lbs on my front end right now. Will add more later when needed. I am not getting angry, but some people told me NOT to buy this tractor and I am VERY HAPPY with its performance and the quality of machine that I have. Wouldn't trade it for any other Yanny out there, even if it was for free.

Aric

hosejockey2002 · Nov 13, 2002

I'm just going to echo what these other guys have said. I've got a 1401D with a 48" bucket, and the loader will handle WAY more than the tractor will. With my box scraper on, it can handle about 400 pounds or so. In retrospect, maybe a 42" bucket would be better, but I've done a lot of work with my machine. And if I've got a load in the bucket, the tractor won't go anywhere unless I'm in 4WD. If things go well with my new business, I hope to upgrade to a 17XX-18XX size machine with powershift and the same size loader.

jimstractors · Nov 13, 2002

I keep a 1401d at the house with a loader that I use 3-4 times a week for moving sand and horse manure. 400 lbs is about max, but with a couple of kids on the box scraper, last year I pulled a engine with trans out of a 71 Chevelle!
Like Hosejockey, I've moved a lot of material in the last 2 years. Great machines. I will try to post a pic of the hydraulic tie in for you tonight. Is your 1401 a 4x4 (1401d)?
Jim

DavesTractor · Nov 13, 2002

Aric, the YM1401 is a very nice machine. Smooth running 3-cylinder that acts like it has even more power than it does. Nobody is knocking the machine, we are just wanting to keep you from rolling it over, or from investing a lot of money and being dissapointed. Sounds like you understand the weight/ballast issues and have got things figured out.

DavesTractor · Nov 13, 2002

Hosejockey, even a YM1610D is way better with a loader. It is almost 18" longer, plus weighs a few hundred pounds more. The extra length works as leverage making the rear of the tractor into better ballast. One of our most popular selling tractors lately has been the FX18D. It is a little bigger and heavier (not much) than the YM18xxD size, and does great with a loader. More money though.

hosejockey2002 · Nov 13, 2002

Yes a 1610D would be wonderful. Maybe someday.....

tractorlet · Nov 13, 2002

King-

There is always the concern about balance on all but the largest tractors. There is abundant support here that the YM1401D has been successfully mounted and used with a front loader. We have mounted many YM1401Ds and have done so with smaller YM1300Ds. Three factors need to be considered when mounting a loader.

The first is the driver must become educated on responsible loader operation and there is much about that on the web and in loader manuals.

The second is understanding the need for proper balance of a tractor with or without loader.

The third aspect is understanding that there are many different loader designs. Some use engineered designs and others don't. Many loaders build strength into their system by using thicker materials while others engineer strength into their loaders by design and fabrication. Many loaders are considerably lighter and considerably stronger than non engineered and professionally fabricated loaders.

Don't look for a name but look for a design

You can email me here on private box at TBN if interested in some direction.

Bob

jimstractors · Nov 13, 2002

Aric:
Here is a picture of a 1401d hydraulic tie in.

jimstractors · Nov 13, 2002

Here is another view...

Ym1401King · Nov 13, 2002

My dealer that I purchased this tractor from was just getting started. This and a 1510 that was in BAD shape was all that he had, other than my dad's Mitsubishi 2220 or something like that. I purchased the 1410, not D with tiller for $2500.00. It only has 151 hours on it. Still "in the box" new condition. Some rust on the corner of the hood on the front above the headlights. Clean oil and everything else.

Aric

Ym1401King · Nov 13, 2002

Actually, I am going to change one of my statements above. I said that I wouldn't trade my tractor for any other. I lied. There is one that I don't know much about, but its the Ke3d, that looks so appealing. If I had the money and was offered a decent trade in, I would consider trading in my 1401 for the Ke3d with loader, and tiller.

Aric in Preston, Idaho

hosejockey2002 · Nov 14, 2002

I don't know much about the Ke3 either, other than its about the same size as a 1401. So, where the rubber meets the dirt, it probably won't do anything that a 1401D won't do. The first time I saw one I thought it looked pretty cool, but IMO tractors are about function, not form, so if I move up, it will be because the new machine will DO more, not just look cool. BUT, if you get one, we want to hear all about it! /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

Ym1401King · Nov 14, 2002

Jimbo,

Let me pose one more question for you. I am also thinking about getting that Johnny Bucket for the front instead of a loader all together, or building one. I would need to adapt some type of hitch on the front though, and some way to raise and lower the implement on the front though. So, I would need a double acting cylinder. Do, you know where I can get the pressure fittings for the hydraulic lines, and how do I know what size of valve to use, like gpm, and how do I route it so that I can still use the 3-pt.? I would adapt that Johnny bucket thing, so it would lift off of the cylinder. Also, on cylinders, the bore is how large the shaft it, correct? Or does the bore mean that is the speed? I was thinking of a 2" bore. Just a shot in the dark. Please give me a hydraulics clue. At the most this thing would weigh with material and everything, about 500 lbs.

Aric

hosejockey2002 · Nov 14, 2002

Aric-

If you're going to go to all the trouble to put a johnny bucket on the front with hydraulics, you might as spend some more money and put a real loader on it. Here is a short list of things you can do with a loader that you probably can't do with that johnny bucket.

Load a pickup, pile loose material up high, lift heavy objects and carry them- I use mine to move snowmobiles, pickup canopys, big tires and other things I'd rather not carry. Spread gravel, topsoil or other material, dig small stumps, light clearing and grading, plow snow, the list can go on. If you put a loader on your 2WD 1401, you're going to want a 500 lb. or so counterweight and filled tires.

On the other hand, if you want to move material on a budget, <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/LLCategoryDisplayView?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=719088&categoryId=1510> click here </A> I've never used one, but a lot of guys in this forum have used pond scoops with great success, and they are cheap and easy to install, and probably perfect for you 2wd tractor. Good luck.