hydraulic problem with FEL

[RipTide]

I need a little help. I know almost nothing about the hydraulic system on my JD 4200. My FEL yesterday seemed sluggish, but I raised it up and proceeded to bush hog my pasture. At one point I lowered it to push a fallen log out of the way and after that I could not get it to respond at all. I looked for leaks, but did not find any. Today when I went out to look at it again I started the tractor up and was able to get a very slow response from the FEL if I pushed real hard on the control lever. I know there are probably a hundred different explanations, but I would appreciate any help I can get.

Thanks,

Mike in Dallas, GA

 

[jinman]

If your 3PH works okay, I'd disconnect and reseat the quick connects going to the FEL.

Did you try both lifting the FEL and curling the bucket? Were they both slow? If the quick-connects are not the problem and both FEL lift and curl are slow, I'd look for an obstruction in or before the joystick.

 

[RonMar]

What Jim said, it probably wouldn't hurt to check your fluid levels and any suction screens you may have.

 

[RipTide]

Thanks for the ideas guys. I will try your suggestions and post how it goes.

 

[RipTide]

Just wanted to let you guys know that your suggestions were on the money. My hydraulic problems turned out to be a clogged screen and I needed to change out and bring up to volume the hydraulic fluid. Thanks again for the help.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Most slow/sluggish problems are on the suction side.

I saw somebody here at one time tout that Brendan Casey guy over at hydraulic supermarket.com. He says to remove suction strainers. Now, what would you rather change, a strainer or a pump? I think he has stock in pump manufacturers.

 

[baberes]

Follow up question on the JD 4200c. I've changed the fluid twice, and cleaned the screen at least 4 times in the last 18 months. But the screen continues to get clogged. I asked my JD dealer what could be the problem (i.e., what in the heck am I doing wrong). He said it's a known issue for the hydraulics to "gunk up". The suggestion he gave me is a bit odd - drain the fluid, fill with diesel, rock the tractor to swish it around, drain the diesel, REPEAT. Then pull off the PTO plate, get all the gunk out, replace filters, refill with oil.

Before I undertake such a mess, does anyone else have this problem? Does this "fix" seem extreme to you?

Thanks!
PS - Tractor sits still for long periods of time. Has <250 hrs and is a 2000 model.

 

[J_J]

Most slow/sluggish problems are on the suction side.

I saw somebody here at one time tout that Brendan Casey guy over at hydraulic supermarket.com. He says to remove suction strainers. Now, what would you rather change, a strainer or a pump? I think he has stock in pump manufacturers.

There you go, talking about me. I think that if you read the complete article, you might absorb some more data. In essence, he is saying that a clogged input filter is one of the major causes of hydraulic pump failures. He is also saying that if the reservoir tank is filtered, such as a return filter on all lines going back to tank, and a fill cap filter,you don't need suction filters.

For your info, I don't take anybodies word as gospel, even yours. I research data and use common sense to make my own judgments. I still have a suction filter on my system, but I wished it had an electronic warning system.

If you are as smart as you say your are, you could help out more people here with technical questions. I notice that you pick out only certain questions to answer.

Any help that I offer here is based on experience, self taught knowledge, and good old common sense.

By the way, it was suction filters, not tank strainers.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

There you go, talking about me. I think that if you read the complete article, you might absorb some more data. In essence, he is saying that a clogged input filter is one of the major causes of hydraulic pump failures. He is also saying that if the reservoir tank is filtered, such as a return filter on all lines going back to tank, and a fill cap filter,you don't need suction filters.

For your info, I don't take anybodies word as gospel, even yours. I research data and use common sense to make my own judgments. I still have a suction filter on my system, but I wished it had an electronic warning system.

If you are as smart as you say your are, you could help out more people here with technical questions. I notice that you pick out only certain questions to answer.

Any help that I offer here is based on experience, self taught knowledge, and good old common sense.

By the way, it was suction filters, not tank strainers.

1. I wasn't talking about you so don't flatter yourself.

2. I never claimed to be smart. I always said I'm just an idiot from Pigsknuckle Pa with a 2 bit hose shop.

3. People like you that chase me around and contradict me for the reason of starting an argument is one reason I don't answer more questions. Your behavoir and those like it have chased some very good people away from TBN. You wouldn't believe all the PM's and phone calls I get to answer questions because people don't want to deal with the bs. Funny thing is when stuff like this comes up I will get PM's from people agreeing with me but nobody will post it publicly.

4. Another reason I only answer certain questions is simple and I have always stated it. My hydraulics schooling is very in depth but also very narrow. I try to answer questions I am certain of. I don't want to send people on a goose chase. Many times there are people more qualified than I that give very good answers. I never knew what power beyond was until someone here explained it to me. In what I worked on, it was never used so I never had to learn it. The last thing I want to do is take a guess on something and screw somebody up even worse.

5. Nobody here should take anyone's word as gospel. We're all human and we all make mistakes and nobody knows everything.

6. Can't we all just get along?

 

[jinman]

Follow up question on the JD 4200c. I've changed the fluid twice, and cleaned the screen at least 4 times in the last 18 months. But the screen continues to get clogged. I asked my JD dealer what could be the problem (i.e., what in the heck am I doing wrong). He said it's a known issue for the hydraulics to "gunk up". The suggestion he gave me is a bit odd - drain the fluid, fill with diesel, rock the tractor to swish it around, drain the diesel, REPEAT. Then pull off the PTO plate, get all the gunk out, replace filters, refill with oil.

Before I undertake such a mess, does anyone else have this problem? Does this "fix" seem extreme to you?

Thanks!
PS - Tractor sits still for long periods of time. Has <250 hrs and is a 2000 model.

I don't know the details of your model of tractor, but something sounds fishy to me about what your dealer told you. If this is a "known issue," then why doesn't he have a "known source" of the problem? Tractors don't just generate "gunk" in the hydraulic systems. There has to be a source. It could be moisture or contamination of the fluid. Have you considered having some of the "gunk" tested to see what is in it? It might be organic or it could be caused by moisture contamination. Finding out what the contamination is will be a first good step at figuring out how to prevent it.

Since your reservoir seems to have a lot of contamination, your dealer's suggestion on how to clean it might work, but if the problem comes back, I think you have to go further and see why you are having this chronic problem.

My tractor is a 2001 model with about 1500 hours on it. I've changed the fluid four times and I'm getting ready to do the 5th. I've never had the slightest problem with any clogging of the hydraulics. I don't think you should expect your tractor to do that either. There has to be a good reason for your having so many problems.

 

[john_bud]

Well, I'm no expert, but what jinman said makes some sense.

But on the other hand, a diesel "wash" will get a lot of the buggers out too. I've used that technique on gear transmissions and run them on stands. It does get a lot of crud loose and out.

Without seeing the crud that is causing the issue, the solution is hard to guess. Could be organic growth, could be metallic, could be a seal or gasket. Heck could be a reaction to an additive in the fluid.

JJ - I read and re-read the thread. It looks to me that you jumped on Wayne for no reason and were out of line. I don't know if you are grumpy for past cause or just grumpy, but it looks to an outside observer that you are over the line. My advice, freely given and worth every cent, is to back it down a notch or two.

Merry Christmas,
jb

 

[J_J]

JJ - I read and re-read the thread. It looks to me that you jumped on Wayne for no reason and were out of line. I don't know if you are grumpy for past cause or just grumpy, but it looks to an outside observer that you are over the line. My advice, freely given and worth every cent, is to back it down a notch or two.

JB

Not grumpy at all, just stating the facts as I see them. As far as the data that was being talked about, I merely stated what Brendan Casey said. I get the news letter on a regular basis. I have emailed him questions, and he has answered them. No, I don't think he is the only hydraulic guru, but so far, the data/info he puts out seems credible. No, I don't claim to be a hydraulic expert, nor have a degree, and I try and not make mistakes on the forums/INTERNET, because someone will correct you. If one can not backup what they, at least point them in the right directions. I don't mind being wrong on things, because a person tends to state what they knows, however it may not be totally correct It just means that one need to know a little more.

If I hurt anyones feelings, I am truly sorry.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

No feelings hurt here. Water under the bridge so to speak.

 

[RWolf]

Well W-C-H I'll express my thanks to you and KennyD on my problem with my cracked seat on my loader valve. That was the first time I dealt with hydraulics and you both had a lot of very good information. Keep it up.

Richard