Hydraulic fluid

[UncleBuck1]

I’m about to hit 500 hours on my clock on my MF 2660HD so its about time to change my hydraulic oil. The tractor holds 11 gallons of hydraulic fluid and with current prices this is not a cheap job!

For my tractor the relevant spec is M1143 (MF Permatran iii recommended); will any fluid that meets or exceeds this spec work? Is there any real world difference between fluids assuming they meet M1143 specs?

 

[Rockbadchild]

yes ... My MF owner manual state to use permatran 821 XL or equivalent, I am surprise yours doesn't state the same... The permetran III is full synthetic oil so as long it meet the same requirement you are good to go ....

For me the permatran 821 XL is semi synthetic, the shop I went too only had the Duratran XL and it is also semi synthetic and probably was as expensive if not more but I don't know, I didn't compare and I didn't care.... It cost me 500$ with engine oil .... I have almost full 5 gallon pail left... the full system called for 13.7 gallon so I bought 15 gallon but it only took me about 11 gallon I am assuming the rest was left in the lines...

 

[5030]

With hydraulic fluid just like engine oil and grease, quality and longevity is price based. You buy cheap, you get cheap and in reality, that applies to everything in life.

 

[rodneyn]

With hydraulic fluid just like engine oil and grease, quality and longevity is price based. You buy cheap, you get cheap and in reality, that applies to everything in life.

Well stated comment on cheap oils. TSC traveller caused shearing issues when hot. Loss of hydraulic pressure was final result. Replaced using Ambria NH brand issues went away. Since then NH discontinued ambria oil. Now using case IH hydraulic oil no issues. Good hydraulic oils have heat stabilization and prevent shearing in pump. They also fight off hydoscopic issues on drawing moisture (water) when tractor sits in change of season. Don’t let a budget interfere with purchasing good hydraulic oil, it will save you time and money in the long run using quality oil. Oils are not equal in performance.

 

[rcio7684]

I was due to change the hydraulic fluid/filter in my 1723E in the Fall of 2021. I researched the forums to see if substituting a different hydraulic oil instead of the the Permatran 821XL was acceptable. I stopped by my dealer and spoke to the service manager asking for the appropriate fluid. He said they use "ARGuard Premium Universal Fluid" from the American Refining Group. He also said it meets all specs for use in the GC1723E. He also went on to say that "We use this in all our equipment" (they sell Massey, Kioti and several other lawn care brands, plus rent heavy equipment).

The back label of the container notes it is recommended for Agco-Allis Power Fluid 821XL (and several other brands hydraulic fluid), plus it was $74 for 5 gallons a significant savings over the Permatran.

 

[5030]

As a rule, I NEVER shop by cost on fluids or on filters for those fluids. When you start shopping by cost you are on the slippery slope towards eventual failure.

 

[rScotty]

Hydraulic oils don't have the same standards that engine oils do. For engine oils we have all sorts of information about what we are buying because oils have those symbols on the can showing they meet standards by the Society of Automotive Engineers and and American Petroleum Institute and the International one as well. SAE, API, and ILSAC.

But the only thing that is required of hydraulic oils is viscosity, and not always that. So there is no way for the consumer to compare hydraulic fluids. Any one can market whatever they want. Instead of meeting standard tests, what you will see on the container are slippery legal words like: 'similar to", "meets all the same specs"...and things like that. Technically it's not a lie since there are no published specs for hydraulic oils. Companies keep their hydraulic oil formulas and specs as their own proprietary trade secrets.

About all I have figured out to do is pick a brand you trust & then gain some experience. If anyone knows a better way please post it. I suspect that a lot of the cheaper oil is used hydraulic fluid that has been highly filtered - what we used to call "re-processed" and mixed in with similar viscosity base stock.

 

[2manyrocks]

^That's pretty frightening considering how expensive hydraulic systems are.

 

[rScotty]

^That's pretty frightening considering how expensive hydraulic systems are.

WELL, yes and no. Using specific fluids is common knowledge among people who work with hydraulics - and especially with trans/hydraulics with a shared sump. So it's not like we don't know this stuff. Mechanics talk about it and have for years.

And something else is working in everyone's favor. I'm not sure just what it is, but us old mechanics have noticed that we just don't hear about trans/hydraulic and seal failures as much in the last 20 years as we used to. Somehow, all those systems are noticibly more reliable now. Whatever is happening is working

A big company like Deere or Cat or NH is going to make darn sure own secret version of trans/hydraulic fluid is good to go with their own seals and metals and wet friction material. And they sell their fluids to anyone. So it's easy to get a fluid specific to a machine for a price.

rScotty

 

[DMW]

yes ... My MF owner manual state to use permatran 821 XL or equivalent, I am surprise yours doesn't state the same... The permetran III is full synthetic oil so as long it meet the same requirement you are good to go ....

For me the permatran 821 XL is semi synthetic, the shop I went too only had the Duratran XL and it is also semi synthetic and probably was as expensive if not more but I don't know, I didn't compare and I didn't care.... It cost me 500$ with engine oil .... I have almost full 5 gallon pail left... the full system called for 13.7 gallon so I bought 15 gallon but it only took me about 11 gallon I am assuming the rest was left in the lines...

Petro Canada's Duratran XL is one of the best THFs for cold weather climates. Not many better out there, and far better than the 821 XL (IMO). It may be a little overkill for the OPs location, and difficult to source.