Hydraulic Cylinder Size for FEL

kfanta · Jul 2, 2021

I am looking to update the main cylinders on my front end loader. The previous owner put on the Front End Loader and while it overall works great the lift speed is slow. I believe this is because the tractor diverts 1/2 the flow to the power steering which means I get about 4.5 - 5 gpm going to the FEL cylinders. The current cylinders are a 3” bore and have a retracted length of about 37”. While I can find matching items. The problem is where the cylinder will connect to the load and loader frame. It looks like I would need to go with Tang Cyclinders to fit the mounting points

My thought is that one way to speed up the lifting process is to go with a smaller bore cylinder, but I am not sure how much lifting capacity I would loose. The heaviest thing I lift is I attach a bale spear to the front of the bucket (so the bucket stays on) and I will haul 1000lb square hay bales (as you can see in the pics it has a rather large bucket 7') I would still like to be able to manage at least that. I know that the farther out you go from the lifting point the more force you need, but I am not sure how to figure that out.

It looks like 3” bore uses about 3.4qts of oil for each cylinder where as 2” uses 1.4qts.

Can someone help me figure out a good replacement Loader Lift cylinders that will still give me plenty of lift capacity and maybe speed up the lifting process? Or conversely my only other option is to do a PTO Hydraulic Pump with separate reservoir. But then it makes it trickier to still be able to use the FEL and use the PTO for equipment that needs it. It would get my GPM up there.

Hopefully the attached pics can give you some idea on what I am currently running and approximate measurements.

The current cylinder which has an outside diameter of 3” is 37” or so retracted. Based on the mounts at either end and how narrow they are it looks like I would need to go with a Tang cylinder. I am wondering how much lift capacity I would give up going with a 2” bore? Also I am guessing because it would require 1/2 the oil to fully extend it should lift faster?

My tractor is an International Harvester 424 Gas engine. I would appreciate any thoughts or advice.

LD1 · Jul 2, 2021

Do you know a manufacture or model of the loader?

Its hard to read the diameter of the cylinder and the rod with a 2-dimensional tape and pics. Are you sure they are 3" cylinders? Do you have calipers to measure the rod and cylinder? Can you wrap a tape measure around the barrel of the cylinder and measure its circumference and we can get a better idea of bore diameter?

While 3" is probably overkill.....I think 2" would be too small to move the round bales without a whole lot more measuring and calculating. 2" cylinders are about the size that are found on ~30-35HP compact tractors......though not as long of a stroke and less mechanical advantage.

Older tractors arent known for high speed or high pressure hydraulics (at least by modern standards).

And while you are at it....get rid of the galvanized water pipe fittings on the high pressure side of the hydraulics. Thats just asking for problems

Tinhack · Jul 2, 2021

Why can't you just upload pictures instead of PDF files?

My browser says I need to download the PDF file to view it but that ain't happening.

PILOON · Jul 2, 2021

Another suggestion.
Perhaps adding another hydraulic pump, probably crankshaft driven and larger, could be your answer.
I drove one from my crankshaft years ago with very satisfying results. Also I've seen many tractors modified that way.
Also the cost of a pump will be much less that a pair of cylinders.

kfanta · Jul 2, 2021

LD1 said:
Do you know a manufacture or model of the loader?

Its hard to read the diameter of the cylinder and the rod with a 2-dimensional tape and pics. Are you sure they are 3" cylinders? Do you have calipers to measure the rod and cylinder? Can you wrap a tape measure around the barrel of the cylinder and measure its circumference and we can get a better idea of bore diameter?

While 3" is probably overkill.....I think 2" would be too small to move the round bales without a whole lot more measuring and calculating. 2" cylinders are about the size that are found on ~30-35HP compact tractors......though not as long of a stroke and less mechanical advantage.

Older tractors arent known for high speed or high pressure hydraulics (at least by modern standards).

And while you are at it....get rid of the galvanized water pipe fittings on the high pressure side of the hydraulics. Thats just asking for problems

Ok so I took a caliper out there and measured again and for the outside of the main cylinder I got 2.926" for the rod I got 1.503".

The FEL is a Miller St. Nazianz Wisconsin. Serial#: 5480 Model#: 102

I have been working to gradually get the galvanized fittings removed on the pressure side (it came this way). The previous owner had mounted this FEL to this tractor. I am also going to be rerouting the hoses as well. He had them going under the tractor and being very close to the exhaust. So I temp routed them over so they were not near the exhaust pipe. I ultimately want to route them around the loader frame.

kfanta · Jul 2, 2021

PILOON said:
Another suggestion.
Perhaps adding another hydraulic pump, probably crankshaft driven and larger, could be your answer.
I drove one from my crankshaft years ago with very satisfying results. Also I've seen many tractors modified that way.
Also the cost of a pump will be much less that a pair of cylinders.

I looked into doing a crankshaft pump and honestly there is not a lot of room between the engine and the radiator. So unless I am not looking at the right place not sure how it would fit. For 2 cylinders I think I am looking at around $400 for the pair. My other thought was a PTO driven pump with its own reservoir. Put the FEL on that system...Only problem is I want to be able to use the PTO for other things and if I remove the PTO pump for other items I can't run the FEL. A PTO pump and reservoir are going to run me around $350 - $400 including the hoses I would need

kfanta · Jul 2, 2021

Tinhack said:
Why can't you just upload pictures instead of PDF files?

My browser says I need to download the PDF file to view it but that ain't happening.

I changed them to JPEG

LD1 · Jul 2, 2021

Sounds like you got a 2.5" cylinder not a 3". I think a 2" cylinder is gonna struggle on round bales

BeezFun · Jul 2, 2021

They make 3pt hay spears. If you lose too much capacity on FEL, you could always lift the bales on the back.

RickB · Jul 2, 2021

I agree your current cylinders are likely 2.5" bore. If the area of the cylinder bore of your replacement cylinder in square inches is 2/3 of the area of your existing cylinder bore your lift capacity will be decreased by 1/3 if hydraulic pressure remains constant. For purposes of comparing or figuring lift capacity the rod diameter is unimportant. For the long term durability of the cylinder, rod diameter is a factor.