Hydraulic angle landscape rake?

[dirtworksequip]

How do I determine what is the best stroke length to use for adding hydraulic angle to my rake? Should I go with a stroke a few inches more than what I determine I actually need?

Thanks, Dirt

 

[3RRL]

That depends.
If for some reason your rake has a solid stop at the end of it's range, a longer stroke cylinder could be destructive. However if you don't have any stops like that, then a longer stroke than you need would be OK. All you need to do is be sure the longer stroke doesn't push the rake into something/somewhere where it shouldn't go like a back tire for example.

 

[aczlan]

How do I determine what is the best stroke length to use for adding hydraulic angle to my rake? Should I go with a stroke a few inches more than what I determine I actually need?

machinebuilders.net had a thread on cylinder lengths and placement for a backhoe, I found it useful when looking for the cylinder size to convert my father in-law's backblade from manual to hyd (havent done it yet, and (if he gets a FEL and a front blade this summer) I may not, but I now know that I need a cylinder that has a range of ~12 to ~26 inches depending on how I mount it...)
on the same forum was a link to a calculator to find how much force the cylinders will exert on the blade... didnt save it but if you dig it should be in the backhoe forum


Aaron Z

 

[dirtworksequip]

Thanks for the help. I originally thought maybe 10 inch stroke would work, but now once I figured out the brackets it looks like 12 inch will get the maximum angle in both directions. I also checked 14 inch stroke,but that turned out to be too long in the retracted position and too long in the extended position to work with how I planned on placing the brackets. Once you get all the way extended with the 14 inch stroke the bracket gets to be too straight with the cylinder to turn the rake. It starts pushing the bracket instead. If that makes sense. I'll go with the 12 inch which is 22.25 inches long retracted and 34.25 inches long when extended. No problem with any stops or hitting the rear tires even with the rake fully angled.
Thanks again for the help.

Sincerely, Dirt

 

[bjcsc]

I hope you post pics of your build. I'm wanting to do the same thing...

 

[dirtworksequip]

Pics............sure everyone likes pics. I've got the cylinder on order and will be using a broken 3pt draft link for the brackets. I'll show the dry layout and then once it's welded up. I'll also try and post pics of the complete build start to finish.

Sincerely, Dirt

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Pics............sure everyone likes pics. I've got the cylinder on order and will be using a broken 3pt draft link for the brackets. I'll show the dry layout and then once it's welded up. I'll also try and post pics of the complete build start to finish.

Sincerely, Dirt

What diameter cylinder did you order, and what size rod does it have? You don't want to get one that is to small. Not sure what size is needed for a landscape rake.

 

[dirtworksequip]

MtnVRanch, I ended up going with a 3 inch bore welded cylinder. It has a 1.5 inch diameter rod,with 12 inch stroke. I went with the welded cylinder over the tie rod cylinder for a little more clearance and a cleaner look. If everything goes well it should give the rake maximum angle both left and right.

Here's what I have so far. I am using a broken draft link for the brackets. I ground the ball of the link end down on both sides so that the cylinder clevis will fit over the ball.

The below pic shows the brackets ready to be welded. Rake in the left angle position.

The below pic shows the brackets and the rake in the straight position.

I may have to heat up the front link bracket to get it a little more level, although I think it would still work the way it is. Also the rear bracket may need to be tweeked for clearence once the cylinder is in place. The only issue I can see right now is clearence of the rod cylinder on the old rake pin hole plate when the rake is angled to the right. I think this can be remedied by slightly changing the rear bracket.
Any suggestions or comments are welcome. Someone will always see something I don't. Thanks.

Sincerely, Dirt

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Size seems good for a landscape rake. Do you never use your rake turned around backwards? If you do or want to be able to, then you will need to re-think your hookup above the blade. Yeah, you will probably need to raise the angle on your rear bracket. Otherwise looks like your set.

 

[dirtworksequip]

MtnVRanch, I think in the 12 years I've owned the rake I only used it spun 180 degrees once or twice at most. Its really not a problem with what I use it for now. I don't even remember what the circumstances where at the time that I spun the rake to use it backwards. I'm sure if anyone wanted to add hydraulic angle to a rear blade you would want to configure it to work either way. Good point though for someone that may want their rake to work forward or backwards.

Sincerely, Dirt

 

[kennyd]

So you will only be able to angle the rake to the left?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

MtnVRanch, I think in the 12 years I've owned the rake I only used it spun 180 degrees once or twice at most. Its really not a problem with what I use it for now. I don't even remember what the circumstances where at the time that I spun the rake to use it backwards. I'm sure if anyone wanted to add hydraulic angle to a rear blade you would want to configure it to work either way. Good point though for someone that may want their rake to work forward or backwards.

Sincerely, Dirt

Just didn't want you to forget about that option. It would be a bummer to get it all done and then realize that it would only work for you half the time. As far as pulling it backwards, I tried it once, didn't see what the big deal was either, but a few guys on here had said how great it worked for them pulling the rake with the tines backwards.

Good luck with the install and show us some pics when it's all done.

 

[dirtworksequip]

Kennyd, the rake will angle fully to the right or left with the way I set up the brackets (I think) for the 12 inch stroke cylinder. Fully angled to the left the cylinder would be fully retracted and measure 22.25 inches. Straight, the cylinder is extended about half way with a total length of 28 inches. Angling the rake fully to the right extends the cylinder a total length to about 32 inches.
34.25 inches is the maximum extended length. Am I missing something, that you thought it would only angle to the left?

MtnVRanch,
I think the time I used the rake backwards was to push some tree branches and limbs into a pile. I didn't want to run over them as some were around 3 inches in diameter. So, I spun the rake and used the tractor in Reverse.From what you are saying some TBNer's use the rake backwards with the tractor going forward? I really never thought of using it that way. Maybe it would give a better finish if you were fine grading a yard in preperation for seeding.

Once I get the cylinder I can mount it to the brackts and see how things will work out. Then I'll get the brackets welded to the rake frame and get a couple of hoses made up. We'll see how it all works out. I'll probably wonder why I didn't do this years ago. So far its been a pretty simple design.

Sincerely, Dirt

 

[kennyd]

Kennyd, the rake will angle fully to the right or left with the way I set up the brackets (I think) for the 12 inch stroke cylinder. Fully angled to the left the cylinder would be fully retracted and measure 22.25 inches. Straight, the cylinder is extended about half way with a total length of 28 inches. Angling the rake fully to the right extends the cylinder a total length to about 32 inches.
34.25 inches is the maximum extended length. Am I missing something, that you thought it would only angle to the left?

In the picture showing the blade straight, It looks like if the blade was to travel to the right the cylinder piston would hit the flat semi-round plate that the rear mount is to be welded to...maybe it's just the angle of the picture that is messing with my meager little brain

 

[dirtworksequip]

Kennyd, here are some pics with the rake angled fully to the right. Since the cylinder will actually go 34.25 inches. I may need to change the brackets slightly so that when fully extended the cylinder will not be exerting force against the brackets when it is trying to go the last 2 inches. What do you think?

Sincerely, Dirt

 

[kennyd]

Your second picture with the yardstick clearly explains why it will NOT work. The yardstick is over the top of the bracket. The clevis on the end of the cylinder will bind against the bracket long before the piston fully extends.

The brackets and cylinder should be at or very close to 90* to each other when the rake is centered and the piston is at 1/2 travel. That way you get symetrical movement in both directions.

 

[dirtworksequip]

Kennyd, I hear you on the rod hitting the plate. I know I will need to tweek the rear mount or cut away some of the plate to get the clearance I need for the interference between the rod and plate. Thats where the brackets had to be to get the 12 inch stroke cylinder to work and still get full angle left and right. If I mount the rear bracket at a 90 when the rake is straight I will not be able to get full angle to the left. I can also raise the rear mount to get more clearence between the rod and plate. I had looked at a couple if other rake pics that were posted here on TBN and from what I could see they probably did not have the range of movement fully left and right with the mounts at a 90 when straight. Do you still think I need to reconfigure the brackets? Thanks for your comments its all good food for thought.

What do you think about making the brackets so that they are at the full measurement of the extended stroke? Will making it shorter cause stress on the mounts because the cylinder will be trying to further extend?

Sincerely, Dirt

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Your second picture with the yardstick clearly explains why it will NOT work. The yardstick is over the top of the bracket. The clevis on the end of the cylinder will bind against the bracket long before the piston fully extends.

The brackets and cylinder should be at or very close to 90* to each other when the rake is centered and the piston is at 1/2 travel. That way you get symetrical movement in both directions.

The clevis end can easily be modified, (changed from a clevis totally). That really is not a problem, but you do not want to go over center or even come close. The bracketing may need to be altered. Does not seem like a big problem to me, get the hydraulic, fasten to fixed end and then you will be able to see what you will need plain as day.

 

[kennyd]

It just looks like the geometry is all wrong...I still think the clevis will not allow the travel you are hoping for. I guess we will see when you get the cylinder...I wish I could draw or explain what I am thinking better



And I do not think you need that amount of angle, usually about 30* is adequate.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

What do you think about making the brackets so that they are at the full measurement of the extended stroke? Will making it shorter cause stress on the mounts?

Either that or put a stroke reducer on the ram. You do not want the implement stopping the hydraulic. It will end up failing. Usually on implements of this type, the hydraulics are run to the ends of its stroke. If you have not actually looked at how the oems do theirs, take a look at Land Pride on their website. Might give you some other ideas if you do indeed have to change your design.

Good luck