Hydraulic 3PH Links. Confused.

[Industrial Toys]

I built a simple hydraulic top link some years ago. It worked good except without explanation sometimes just moves on it's own. I know, I don't have check valves in there.

So anyway, I am looking on E-Bay and find some good choices, with check valves. But I would also like to get a side link hydraulic cylinder. Not one has the check valves, and I don't understand this.

BTW, for what it's worth, I am looking at CAT 2.

I called Hay Tools and they are just too busy at the moment and are not building hydraulic links.

Also, does anybody know the advantage of getting one end with the hook and latch as opposed to closed ball? I think the ball would be safer and besides, I usually use a quick attach plate, so I never have to touch the original 3PH anyway.

 

[Threepoint]

I built a simple hydraulic top link some years ago. It worked good except without explanation sometimes just moves on it's own. I know, I don't have check valves in there.

So anyway, I am looking on E-Bay and find some good choices, with check valves. But I would also like to get a side link hydraulic cylinder. Not one has the check valves, and I don't understand this.

BTW, for what it's worth, I am looking at CAT 2.

I called Hay Tools and they are just too busy at the moment and are not building hydraulic links.

Also, does anybody know the advantage of getting one end with the hook and latch as opposed to closed ball? I think the ball would be safer and besides, I usually use a quick attach plate, so I never have to touch the original 3PH anyway.

Yes, Haytools are slammed right now with other business and not taking orders for the custom hydraulic side links. Suggest you give Bob Piro a call at Michigan Iron and Equipment. MIE has started offering double-piloted check valves (he prefers the term lock valves, which strikes me as more descriptive) on their Cat 1 and Cat 2 custom hydraulic side links for an additional $80. MIE works fast. Bob took my telephone order for a Cat 1 side link w/ 2-1/2" cylinder and lock valve for my Kioti 4510HST on May 7 and sent me an email today that it has already shipped, with a tracking number. :thumbsup: He likely will be able to help on your second question as well.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I built a simple hydraulic top link some years ago. It worked good except without explanation sometimes just moves on it's own. I know, I don't have check valves in there.

So anyway, I am looking on E-Bay and find some good choices, with check valves. But I would also like to get a side link hydraulic cylinder. Not one has the check valves, and I don't understand this.

BTW, for what it's worth, I am looking at CAT 2.

I called Hay Tools and they are just too busy at the moment and are not building hydraulic links.

Also, does anybody know the advantage of getting one end with the hook and latch as opposed to closed ball? I think the ball would be safer and besides, I usually use a quick attach plate, so I never have to touch the original 3PH anyway.

If your movement is only some of the time, it sounds like you end up extending the unit with the implement raised up and the unit (because of gravity) extends faster than the fluid can get into the cylinder thus causing a vacuum. A flow restrictor on the rod end of the unit would probably solve your periodic "drifting" that you are seeing.

For people that use a quick hitch such as yours, (3pt) a quick hitch top link serves no purpose.

Good luck.

 

[travlitt]

If your movement is only some of the time, it sounds like you end up extending the unit with the implement raised up and the unit (because of gravity) extends faster than the fluid can get into the cylinder thus causing a vacuum. A flow restrictor on the rod end of the unit would probably solve your periodic "drifting" that you are seeing.

For people that use a quick hitch such as yours, (3pt) a quick hitch top link serves no purpose.

Good luck.

Brian, could you explain why a hydraulic top link serves no purpose when using a 3 point quick hitch? Maybe I am not understanding what you mean..
I use a hydraulic top link with check valves with mine, especially when using my box blade.
Thanks
Travis

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Brian, could you explain why a hydraulic top link serves no purpose when using a 3 point quick hitch? Maybe I am not understanding what you mean..
I use a hydraulic top link with check valves with mine, especially when using my box blade.
Thanks
Travis

No, a quick hitch top link, (the ones with a hook on the rod end, sort of like an upside down Pat's QD for the top link) serve no purpose when using a 3pt quick hitch.

I personally can not even image not using "T&T" when doing any grading what so ever.

 

[travlitt]

No, a quick hitch top link, (the ones with a hook on the rod end, sort of like an upside down Pat's QD for the top link) serve no purpose when using a 3pt quick hitch.

I personally can not even image not using "T&T" when doing any grading what so ever.

Thanks for the clarification.. I understand your statement now..
Have a great day.
Travis

 

[LD1]

I agree with brian, you are probably pulling a vacuum and getting air in the cylinder. And if thats the case, a pilot operated check valve isnt gonna help that.

The pilot operated check valves work kinda like a solenoid. It needs a little pressure (juice) to open up and allow fluid into or out of the cylinder. Then when pressure is cut off, the valve closes and nothing can leave the cylinder. They are usually safety devices, so if a hose fails the hydraulics wont collapse. But if you have air in the cylinder, you implement will still be jumpy.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Thanks for the input.

It seems that when it fails, it is always pushed in all the way. I use it with a PRO 8 Harley Rake and along with the quick hitch, that is one chunk of iron hanging back out there.

I don't believe I have an issue with the valves leaking, but you never know. The cylinder is decent quality and hardly used. If anything, maybe it is too small, as I bought it for my JD 770. Maybe that's the trouble of my own making right there.


I have been wrestling with improving the operation of the Harley Rake for some time. I for one,
don’t understand how you can have a fixed 3PH and then have trailing castor wheels out the
back.. I have had the top link cylinder floating and this seems to work well, except it complicates
the procedure for changing direction.

By the same token, I don’t fully understand how one could tilt the rake, with the fixed castors out
back. Right now, if I want to tilt, I take the Rake out of level, angle the rollers and I have my tilt,
but it’s awkward.

Back to the check valves. The hoses seem to still connect to the cylinder ports with just a pipe
coming off each to go to the check valve. How does this work anyway?

Thanks.


BTW I have the flow control on the John Deere SCV turned way down.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I am having some computer issues. Is there any spot in the forums for technical issues?

Thanks

And yes, the hydraulic top link in conjunction with the quick attach is the greatest thing since sliced bread. You can angle the plate, then grab the top link with the rather long hook and pull the bottom into position.

My only issue is that sometimes the engaging mechanism binds on the outer lift arms but I have a really poor quality quick hitch.

 

[mrutkaus]

I am grading a 1/3 mi gravel driveway with a Kioti ck30hst and a 5' tilting blade and also can use a 5' box blade. I want to 'mound' the driveway in the center and make little drainage ditches on either side. I have done this somewhat with the 5' tilt blade, BUT there's not enough pressure on the blade to dig into the side ditch part...so,

Wil a top tilt hydraulic link enable me to put pressure on the grading blade so it will make a better ditch?

Seems it would be a little different with the box blade, would mostly tilt it forward or backward, not put too much down pressure on it?

Thanks

Mike

 

[Industrial Toys]

The three point hitch is a funny thing. Just for instance. Pulling a flail mower with floating attachment arms and a roller on the back, when the tractor front end dips the mower dips, exactly the opposite of what you would expect to happen. I had to build a model years ago to actually see this for myself. It was that extra pivot point that messed things up. I could not understand why when I crested the hill with the tractor, the mower would scalp the lawn.

The only tractor I know of with down pressure 3ph was the Belauris (sp?).

Usually, you just add weight to the implement for better ground engagement. I assume you don't have wheels on the rake.

I too have a thousand foot gravel driveway. My biggest issue is not spreading the valuable material off to the side. I have 69 Tonnes of stone dust sitting in piles in my driveway right now, and am too sick to go out and deal with them. I never had materal delivered with a tri-axle and didn't realize how high those things are when up. He dared not ry and spred the material on an uneven portion of driveway as the thing may start rocking and tip over!

 

[mrutkaus]

I probably need to draw some kind of a vector force diagram; that is for a single blade, pushing back on it results in a ground force dependent on various angles etc.

Perhaps the reason the top tilt arrangement is so mysterious is that it depends on these various angles which differ greatly from installation to installation.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Xfaxman]

I am having some computer issues. Is there any spot in the forums for technical issues?

Thanks

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[LD1]

A hydraulic TL wont apply any more ground pressure than just lengthening the TL. There is nothing holding the lower arms down, they are free to float up. So, as you extend the hydraulic TL, instead of applying ground pressure, it raises the lower arms.

But, extending it does make it cut better, cause you get a better attack angle on the cutting edge of the blade

 

[Industrial Toys]

Is it possible that only the first SCV on a JD 6200 Tractor has float? I wanted to float the Harley, but found that I apparenty could not. There was apparently no detent on the second valve. I can't use the first, because I have a toggle switch atop that lever to control the electro-hydraulic valve on the Harley.

 

[J_J]

If your valve is a loader valve, then you probably have float.

What has the switch got to do with float. They are two separate functions.

You can also add float to a cyl .

Is the Harley on the front or back?

 

[ishiboo]

I am grading a 1/3 mi gravel driveway with a Kioti ck30hst and a 5' tilting blade and also can use a 5' box blade. I want to 'mound' the driveway in the center and make little drainage ditches on either side. I have done this somewhat with the 5' tilt blade, BUT there's not enough pressure on the blade to dig into the side ditch part...so,

Wil a top tilt hydraulic link enable me to put pressure on the grading blade so it will make a better ditch?

Seems it would be a little different with the box blade, would mostly tilt it forward or backward, not put too much down pressure on it?

Thanks

Mike

No, you won't get any down pressure with a hydraulic toplink... it just replaces the manual adjuster... so if you can't do it manually with the adjuster, you can't do it with the hydraulic version

Down pressure on a box blade is easy to add though... just throw some cinder blocks on the top.

I think there is a reason Kioti and other brands do not offer down pressure... I think outside of a PHD or similar implement, it offers less assistance than we imagine it would. For example, instead of giving you much better box blade functionality, you would simply unload the rear tires and spin out, or put all the tractive force on relatively tiny the front axle.

 

[Industrial Toys]

 

[Industrial Toys]

I am still having computer problems.

I spoke with the Service Manager at our selling dealer. I was very impressed that he knew immediately what I was talking about. Apparently it is not uncommon to not have float on addition SCVs.

Since I have a loader two SCVs and an electic valve spool for the loader grapple, I am out of stacking locations on the valve. Another SCV (with float) could have run 2Gs anyway, so that was not an option.

So, I thought my goose was cooked. BUT, what I will do, is merely change the control cables going to the valves, so my second lever has first valve with the float.

As far as what the switch has to do with float. As you can see in the pictures, I rigged up another loader style joystick handle on my SCV. Took some machining and clever work, but it runs a couple of relays and goes out to the receptacle into which I plug in my Harley three way valve. I never did get the control box with the harley, but with a hundred things happening at once when you are using this, this arrangement is really slick!

It is also a really good reason, to never be able to lend out the rake.

So I guess it takes me back to my original question. What to do if I want float but want that top link cylinder not to move on its own.

That, and how can I tilt this rake?