Hybrid-vehicle electronic failures....

   / Hybrid-vehicle electronic failures.... #11  
Makes sense. I just see lots of people complain about "drive by wire" steering, but I've never personally seen a mainstream production vehicle that actually has it so I wanted to put that out there. Electric power steering is not drive by wire. I had a Lincoln that had both, hydraulic and electric power steering. Hydraulic was used full time, but electric kicked in at low speed to make parking and such require less effort on the steering wheel.
 
   / Hybrid-vehicle electronic failures.... #12  
Have a 2010 Prius with 86k miles and no electronic issues. Great car, still gets 50mpg. Toyota has produced like 10 million hybrids since they first introduced them, and they know their hybrid technology very well.
 
   / Hybrid-vehicle electronic failures.... #13  
I thought there was a federal rule that there has to be a physical connection between the steering wheel and the tires. Seems I heard that about 15 years ago or so when somebody was trying to make all hydraulic conversions on some extreme off road vehicles. Would seem smart so that you have some control when the system fails.

Seems that would be a required safety item. If all else fails you still have steering control.

Latest idiocy that I have heard of (haven't been able to confirm it) is that there is no way to unlock the doors FROM INSIDE if the battery is totally dead or disconnected. Had an accident last fall in Spokane, wa witrh woman inside and was unable to open any door and she tried everything. Engine was on fire, rescuer managed to break out the window in time to pull her out . That for sure is "anti-safe" if true. Yes, the door windows now are also laminated glass, no more easy breakage with a sharp pointed tool.
 
   / Hybrid-vehicle electronic failures....
  • Thread Starter
#14  
I can't say anything about the hybrids, but both my wife's 2014 Escape Titanium and my 2015 F150 Lariat have electric power steering and it is NOT drive by wire. If you hit the start button without pressing the brake to turn on in "accessory only" mode, that unlocks the steering wheel; you can then turn the wheels with manual steering (although like a hydraulic system, much heavier than simple manual steering). The electric power steering on both of these vehicles is merely "power assist" much like hydraulic systems have been for decades. The physical connections between the steering wheel and the tires on the ground all still exist as they have for decades. Only the way your efforts at the steering wheel are assisted have been changed.

As far as I know, drive by wire on most vehicles is limited to the accelerator. Some newer cars are starting to include braking in the drive by wire systems. I haven't seen any mainstream production cars with drive by wire steering. "Drive by wire" indicates there is no direct physical link between components; only wire.

A bit of a lazy throw-away line on my part..... in my sometimes oblique way what I was getting at is that as control systems go, it's not that big a deal - technically. However, putting even just electric-assisted steering into a production vehicle at low cost, and having it run reliably for something like 15 years, is more difficult than it may seem.

Once you have even just one sensor is a sub-module, then you are faced with the question "What happens when the sensor becomes flakey ?". Quoting from the above link " I have had many close calls when without warning the steering becomes almost locked up but have been able to so far muscle it around the turns. "

From an engineering standpoint, I take general issue with systems that trade-off reliability and baseline performance for alleged higher-value gains.

Obviously, nobody wants to deal with erratic steering, ever - that's a bad enough scenario on dry pavement - with what most of Canada gets to drive on 6 months of the year..... no thanks.

W/O high levels of vigilance and effort (even sometimes with them.....) As complexity is added, more critical failure points can arise..... There was a fatality in California after a brother drove his sister to their high school, and locked the car from the outside with the fob, so his sister could have a nap before her later class started. She passed away, trapped in an overheated car she couldn't escape from.

At the time, the way BMW had the car programmed, you couldn't open the doors from the inside, if security had been armed from the outside..... When I say that I'm big on baseline (aka, critical) functions always working, it's more than just my OCD talking....

I have worked with precision industrial servo-motors..... what I've seen coming out of cars with failed Eracks are not in that class, at least after a number of Winter's road-salt has had it's way...... back to that price-point thing, once again.....

Rgds, D.
 
   / Hybrid-vehicle electronic failures....
  • Thread Starter
#15  
Have a 2010 Prius with 86k miles and no electronic issues. Great car, still gets 50mpg. Toyota has produced like 10 million hybrids since they first introduced them, and they know their hybrid technology very well.

Agreed. I wasn't surprised when the poster with his manhood still intact ( :laughing: ) replied Prius - that model alone has a large % of the USA market. Mostly, they do well; I was talking with a fellow locally that has been successful running several to high mileage.

The challenge seems to be the rest of the market. Vehicles in general have become more complicated, not just hybrids.

Take moving coolant around. I get why companies like BMW have taken to adding 12v pumps to their interior heating loop - the main mechanical pumps have been optimized for parasitic drag to the point that they don't move enough heat thru the interior heater core, at least at this latitude. If that pump fails, the car is still mobile.

Ford did a quiet recall on the CEL pumps that cool the hybrid electronics on the Escape. The original Bosch brush motor didn't cut it, and was replaced with a brushless design. If that CEL pump fails, the drive system shuts down, to protect the drive-electronics. Added complexity, reducing primary-function reliability.....

Rgds, D.
 
   / Hybrid-vehicle electronic failures.... #16  
I have a 2008 Escape Hybrid we bought new. It has 105K miles now. There was one hybrid system related failure - a failed motor cooling fan. Annoying and more expensive than it should have been but minor overall. Beyond that it has had cracked front wheel ABS sensors, new brakes at 100K, replaced stabilizer links, and a new 12V battery after 7 years. All pretty normal for that vintage Escape.

In Chicago, many of the cab companies used Escape hybrids for many years, some still in use. My understanding is that they usually ran 300K plus miles without hybrid system failures.
 
   / Hybrid-vehicle electronic failures.... #17  
Seems that would be a required safety item. If all else fails you still have steering control.

Latest idiocy that I have heard of (haven't been able to confirm it) is that there is no way to unlock the doors FROM INSIDE if the battery is totally dead or disconnected. Had an accident last fall in Spokane, wa witrh woman inside and was unable to open any door and she tried everything. Engine was on fire, rescuer managed to break out the window in time to pull her out . That for sure is "anti-safe" if true. Yes, the door windows now are also laminated glass, no more easy breakage with a sharp pointed tool.

My GMC Jimmy also had similar problem.
Battery died and no way to open any door unless I got a boost even with keys in my hand.
(Was towing a trailer with fridge running on 12 Volts that drained battery totally as I had parked still on 12vdc)\
Was able to open rear trunk and had to crawl over seats to pop the hood and a friendly motorist gave me a boost.
LOL. that was last time I used 12 vdc on the trailer fridge!

If I recall I had to crawl out of the window as I could not even unlock doors from inside.

Then I later dumped that Jimmy as it liked to die whenever it felt like it, like on up ramps, at stops or whenever idling for a while.
Later proved to be ignition switch recall but only after I traded it at a dealer.
 
   / Hybrid-vehicle electronic failures....
  • Thread Starter
#18  
I have a 2008 Escape Hybrid we bought new. It has 105K miles now. There was one hybrid system related failure - a failed motor cooling fan. Annoying and more expensive than it should have been but minor overall. Beyond that it has had cracked front wheel ABS sensors, new brakes at 100K, replaced stabilizer links, and a new 12V battery after 7 years. All pretty normal for that vintage Escape.

In Chicago, many of the cab companies used Escape hybrids for many years, some still in use. My understanding is that they usually ran 300K plus miles without hybrid system failures.

Good data, thanks. I've driven my friend's '06 Escape hybrid for a day or 2 - decent enough to drive, and reasonable on fuel with about a 70% highway, 30% urban mix.

ABS going south I can usually live with; as a supplemental system it usually doesn't take the whole vehicle down.

Rgds, D.
 
   / Hybrid-vehicle electronic failures.... #19  
To clarify the Escape ABS problem is tone ring cracking. The first one that cracked was fixed by the dealer and was obscenely expensive. The second I fixed myself - about $15 and a couple of hours of easy work. It has to be fixed because it generates a bad signal and can't be defeated.
 
   / Hybrid-vehicle electronic failures....
  • Thread Starter
#20  
My GMC Jimmy also had similar problem.
Battery died and no way to open any door unless I got a boost even with keys in my hand.
(Was towing a trailer with fridge running on 12 Volts that drained battery totally as I had parked still on 12vdc)\
Was able to open rear trunk and had to crawl over seats to pop the hood and a friendly motorist gave me a boost.
LOL. that was last time I used 12 vdc on the trailer fridge!

If I recall I had to crawl out of the window as I could not even unlock doors from inside.

Then I later dumped that Jimmy as it liked to die whenever it felt like it, like on up ramps, at stops or whenever idling for a while.
Later proved to be ignition switch recall but only after I traded it at a dealer.

:) To your point.... this has been going on a long time.....

I remember pulling into the parking lot at a large grocery store and starting to walk in with my wife, to have a lady approach me about her car not starting. Given what I drive, I guess she figured I must work on vehicles..... :laughing:

Her's was an old Q45. I hopped into it to try cranking it over, and realized when I glanced at the key she would need a tow - that era had a roughly 1/8" off-square chip pressed into a rectangular hole in the metal key head, and the chip had fallen out leaving an empty hole.

Nobody was going to start that car, let alone steal it, that day....

Rdgs, D.
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

2018 PJ 40T/A GOOSENECK TRAILER (A50854)
2018 PJ 40T/A...
2004 FREIGHTLINER COLUMBIA 112 MID-ROOF SLEEPER (A50854)
2004 FREIGHTLINER...
2013 INTERNATIONAL WORKSTAR 7600 SBA 6X4 DUMP TRK (A51406)
2013 INTERNATIONAL...
2018 JCB 505-TC 5,500lb 4x4 Rough Terrain Telehandler (A49461)
2018 JCB 505-TC...
2015 Ford Explorer AWD SUV (A48082)
2015 Ford Explorer...
2013 HINO 388 (A50854)
2013 HINO 388 (A50854)
 
Top