HVAC Experts - Best New NG Systems?

[dalola]

preparing for the inevitable here... the replacement of our 28 year old HVAC system. Looking for recommendations on good new systems.

Current setup is a 1991 Ruud UGNG gas furnace w/central air, sized for a 1700 ft2 house. It's been very reliable up until the last few years, requiring some minor repairs. I'm thinking it's served it's reliable life span? Should I just keep repairing it, or am I chasing good money with bad? I like replacing things on my terms, vs an emergency major failure. So, maybe within the next few seasons?

What are the HVAC experts recommending these days? I know a lot has changed over the past 30 years! What are the quality names in HVAC these days? Not looking to go cheap on a 10 year unit. Value is not just price for me.

Suggestions welcome.

 

[ovrszd]

The efficiency has improved dramatically. I would pay more attention to efficiency percent rather than brand. I would not buy an unknown brand though.

You might consider an air to air heat exchange. They seem to be extremely efficient down to 20F.

Anxious to hear opinions from the professionals.

 

[chim]

I'd second the brand name and efficiency approach. We built in 1989 and installed a Heil furnace and A/C then. We replaced the system with a Trane about 6 years ago. The furnace itself still serves in another home (relative had a flood and lost their furnace) but the R22 A.C was on its last leg and tossed. Both furnaces were NG/LPG and the correct orfice was field installed. Both were 95%+ efficiency 100MBTU condensing furnaces that we run on LPG. Our typical fuel consumption is about 500 gallons per heating season. We buried our own 1,000 gallon tank in 2012 so we can shop for our gas to take advantage of seasonal pricing. We missed the boat this year and paid $1.67 per gallon. Twice since burying the tank we bought for under $1.00.

The Heil did have a small condensate leak in the secondary heat exchanger early on that caused the burners to rust. I did the repairs and it ran fine after that. The liquid line on the A/C developed a crack that I repaired two cooling seasons before we replaced the system.

Trane had some kind of offer going when I bought it through my employer. The Trane has a couple features the Heil didn't that I like. It has high and low fire plus a variable fan. It holds the set temperature better than the Heil did. We don't have any accurate means to make a comparison of fuel consumption between the two because of the differences in weather each winter, but it seems to be about the same.

 

[KennyG]

I recently had this discussion with our local HVAC experts. They said any of the name brand furnaces are equivalent now. They recommend going with the 95% efficiency units which are bullet proof and well proven now. They did not recommend going up to the 97 or 98% because the payback was not there and the systems were more complex.

 

[jaxs]

Speaking from decades experience in repair & installation plus several years overseeing upkeep on hundreds of systems,proper installation is far more important than brand name,effeciency ratings and warranty. Considering your experience with the present system,your's would seem to be an exceptional contractor so I suggest considering them when it's time to change out system. Timing can effect price and more importantly quality of labor when it come's to repair or installation. Material and labor cost is at it's highest during intense heat or cold. Installers are in a hurry,so overall attention to details suffers. You will generally have to wait in line during busy season,esp during weather like that recently in upper mid-west. Zoned systems are fine if they are properly installed and competent help can be had for repair and maintenance. I prefer 2 systems that share duty,one at night,the other days. 1700 sq ft is on the small side for 2 central systems so I suggest a mini-split for living area where both cooling and heating is important. A MS might be a good addition if you want to see how much longer your system will go. I'm not familiar with your seasonal temperature extremes but I suspect air to air heat pump might preform poorly in much of winter season. It's hard to beat natural gas for economy. One might forego backup heat in Southern Ca. or Fl. or cooling in Northerly/mountain locations. It's common to see ductwork changed out along with equipment but that's not always a good idea. If ducts are metal,money is better spent on making sure they are tight and well insulated. Turbulance within flex is bad for performance. Regardless of what is being installed,I ALLWAYS recommend the largest merv 8 or better filter that can be incorporated with return. 90% of contractors install a filter same size as air handler intake. There is no reason return can't have a larger section for filter. Where building structure limit's space,I install 2 filters in a V to increase filter surface. There is no such thing as oversizing to the extent of harming performance but under size can and will hurt performance and economy.

 

[dalola]

All good points, jaxs. i completely agree about the install process. Unfortunately, the guy who initially put my system in has long since retired. He was slow, methodical, and did things right. He's exactly why I've gotten 30 years out this unit.

Some of the local guys I trust have also mentioned to stay away from the "ECB" variable speed blower units. He sees a lot of blower failures with those, and they are $$$ to replace. He recommends the 2-speed units over the variable. They are selling Lennex, which he says has a good track record.

 

[cdaigle430]

preparing for the inevitable here... the replacement of our 28 year old HVAC system. Looking for recommendations on good new systems.

Current setup is a 1991 Ruud UGNG gas furnace w/central air, sized for a 1700 ft2 house. It's been very reliable up until the last few years, requiring some minor repairs. I'm thinking it's served it's reliable life span? Should I just keep repairing it, or am I chasing good money with bad? I like replacing things on my terms, vs an emergency major failure. So, maybe within the next few seasons?

What are the HVAC experts recommending these days? I know a lot has changed over the past 30 years! What are the quality names in HVAC these days? Not looking to go cheap on a 10 year unit. Value is not just price for me.

Suggestions welcome.

I am not an HVAC expert but I did my homework when I replaced my 48 year old number 2 oil Chevron furnace. I switched over to NG when I replaced it two years ago was easy.
First of all-do your homework on these so called high efficiency models-the ones that direct vent outside and have a catalysist system. They are not as efficient as you think or what they tell you and the tax return you get from them are not worth it.
Why-because the catalyst system needs electricity to run and requires yearly maintenance and has a specific life span where it needs to be replaced-that all costs $$$$$. High efficiency models cost 20% more up front than the standard models. On top of all this the high efficency models claim 97% efficiency but.............read the fine print here. Thats only in perfect conditions. Right temp inside, outside, how and where it was installed and elevation as well as age of system. I was told by Bosch and Phillips on the average you get 80 to 90% if I remember correctly.
I decided to go with the Buderus GC144 25 4 zone and a 40 gallon indirect heat water tank. It has a cast iron boiler, better heat exchange (proven material few failures from stress cracks unlike new stainless steel and aluminum) No maintenance, just clean dust bunnies. Its 85%AFUE but, 20% less expensive than high efficiency models and they require yearly maintenance and repairs plus more electricity to run it. Also the GC144 is designed to snap in place of any older furnace requiring no extra plumbing or vents. I love this system!
Bottom line is stiick with name brand because its the heart of your home, also dont buy into the high efficiency hype-it comes with several caveats and by all means call the manufacturer and ask questions. You will be with this system for a loooong time.

 

[cdaigle430]

Also buy the system that has parts readily available if needed-very important. I wanted to by a veissman system but every single HVAC tech told me the parts are not readily available and can take weeks to get.