Hunters (neighbors) Trespassing - Dilemna

[8NTX]

We have 18 acres of woods in the country. The property is about 1300 feet deep, and a little over 600 feet wide, with a little half acre "ear" at the front that cuts at an angle over to the road. The biggest bulk of my property lies behind a 5 acre parcel that was vacant until two years ago. I tried to buy it, but apparently the owner sold to a relative. They promptly moved in 3 old, raggedy mobile homes, along with the assorted lawn decorations such as washers, junk cars, trash, etc.. Otherwise, our nearest neighbor is a rancher who has 1800 acres of the most beautiful land anywhere.

No city limits, no building restrictions, no zoning. So anything goes. While driving down our driveway today, I noticed what appeared to be a white PVC pipe standing on end in the woods. Turned out to be a deer feeder. Closer inspection revealed 3 deer stands, and 5 deer feeders spread over about 2 acres. And all on our property, along with some empty beer cans, etc. All are directly behind his property, but anywhere from about 50 to 250 feet inside my property line. Granted, the line is not well marked, however there is a large hickory tree that serves as my corner, and the feeders and stands are within site of the marker, which is still wrapped with surveyor's tape. Two other markers were placed along this boundary (disappeared), but there is no fence. It is HEAVILY wooded and it would be pretty expensive, and serve no other purpose than to keep the neighbors out.

To top it off, this guy is a total jerk and a drunk. I've already had one run-in over property lines with him when he started digging a huge hole once within 20 feet of my front gate on our property line (I thought he was putting in a septic). I tried to be nice but he got PO'd about it. (Turns out he just needed some dirt and his buddy came over with a back hoe).

My wife is livid. My first thought is to just go talk to him, show him the survey and take a compass, measure, etc. and point out the obvious problem But she just wants to call the sheriff or game warden. Another problem - this is our lake house; we don't live there. It would be real easy for someone to come and burn down the house, break in, etc. Looking for some advice here...

 

[GerardC]

It's tough when you don't live there. I'd call the authorities and file a complaint. That way there is a record of the problem that you're having.
If you have power all the time there, you could install some video surveillance (motion sensing). People like that are just as you said, jerks!
When my neighbor became a jerk, I was lucky enough that I could put up a fence (see attachment). It's still in the process stage, but it's getting there. Good luck.

 

[DannyD]

With the deer feeders and the stands it could be very obvious that he is breaking some sort of game laws. I would notify the authorities of this immediately, not to get him persey, but to protect yourself. Also with beer cans and the like around be sure and post the property and check with your insurance on other things you may need to do to limit your liability in case the idiot falls from "your" stand on "your" property.

As for the hunting, well a few gunshots each morning or each weekend might just keep the deer from coming around. You are not going to stop him from trespassing short of putting him in jail, but you can stop the reason he is. Take some "targets" with you. Also notify the authorities of your desire NOT to have people on the property without your permission, this way they can let anyone know that they see they are not supposed to be there.

 

[DannyD]

Gerald

is the yellow and red on both sides? Mine would have to be ORANGE, and depending on if my back yard neighbor uses his track this year, it will be..............and very tall, and very ugly, on his side.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Whoa Steve!

I've heard about being between a rock and a hard place. But being between a livid woman and a drunk is a tougher place than that. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

If the feeders and stands are on your property for sure then I'd file a report with the sheriff and ask for a sheriff to be there when you remove them. I would then make a point of asking the neighbor if he'd seen who put them there because you know he wouldn't do it since you've already discussed the property lines with him.

Some video surveillance equipment installed on site might be worth the cost for peace of mind.

Another thing to keep in mind is a jerk is a jerk is a jerk. In other words if you have a person who's a total inconsiderate jerk to you then chances are most likely he's like that to many others. And since the world is out to get him he probably has more to fear from you than you do from him.

Based upon that he probably already has a working relationship with local law enforcement. Funny how that works. So the last thing he wants is to have something bad happen to your place with him being the number one suspect.

The double whammy of having the sheriff investigate the trespassing with the deer hunting equipment and a security service van at the residence obviously doing an install of something might be enough to make him your guard dog.

If he's a drunk and a jerk then there's a good chance he's on probation for doing one of the things jerks do while drunk. The last thing he wants is to have that probation revoked.

In other words. You hold the aces. You're not bluffing and you don't need to act like you are.

*In Texas baiting is SOP. I don't understand it. But unlike out west where hunting is hunting it's the way it's done here.

 

[rlw]

I assume your property is in Texas.
From the Texas Park & Wildlife Dept Website :

1. It is against the law to hunt or fish on privately owned lands or waters without the permission of the owner or the owner's agent. Under the Texas Penal Code (§30.05) it is an offense for any person to enter property that is fenced, posted with a sign(s), or marked (purple paint) without the express permission of the owner. Posts or trees bearing purple paint marking of not less than eight inches in length and not less than one inch in width at not less than three or more than five feet from the ground constitute notice that the property is posted. A person who hunts without landowner consent and kills a desert bighorn sheep, pronghorn antelope, white-tailed deer, or mule deer commits an offense that is a Parks and Wildlife Code state jail felony. Upon conviction, your huntingand fishing license is automatically revoked.

2. Baiting for game animals, nongame animals, and game birds is lawful on private property, except for turkey in certain East Texas counties and migratory game birds statewide.


I'd mark my property in accordance to the rules above, and then call the Park & Wildlife Dept.

Or,
Mark your property, then remove all the stands, etc and take to the dump. Don't bother trying to confront him. There's no reasoning with an ******.

Perhaps you should also make sure your insurance policy premium is paid. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[GerardC]

DannyD:

It is ORANGE. The photo makes it look red. Attached is the other side. G

 

[jinman]

Steve, I'd call the game warden. There's no need to even bother with the sheriff who will send you to the game warden (my experience). Tell the GW the same story you told us and ask for suggestions. He may actually do all your investigation and surveillance for you. In my current Texas Wildlife magazine there is an article about poachers and illegal hunters. Your neighbor can get into some real heat for doing what you've described.

 

[FL_Cracker]

I would still check your state laws. In Florida the game laws are a little lame so poaching is not a big deal. But that same poacher can be charged with Armed Trespassing and that's a felony. (Much better charge to got their attention)

 

[gws]

sounds to me like you have several deer stands to sell on ebay.

 

[JimR]

Jerk + Alcohol = Instant ******. Pull the stands and feeder down. Leave them on his property with a big note saying that you removed these from your property. Any such violation of your property again will be handled by the Sheriff's office. Post your property every 25 feet in the woods so the jerk can't say he missed a sign. Run a single strand of wire around your back property at waste height with ribbons on it so he will know where your property line is. Be careful, a drunk with a gun is a loaded cannon. I had one shoot my dog years ago when I was a kid. He paid the price for that and died a slow painful death from cancer.

 

[ByronBob]

You can't prove beyond a doubt the neighbor did it. I think he did and so does the rest of the world. However this is America where your supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. If relations with the guy are horrible get the GW involved. If you need to ask him to help you talk to the neighbor then you go there with him as a witness. Hopefully as you say he'll either cooperate or get the hint that you mean business and he'll leave you alone.

 

[Dargo]

jinman has the right idea with calling the game warden. I just found out how much power they have. I had some people hunting on some of my property without permission. They claimed that they were in the easement under some power lines and that there was nothing I could do about it.

Well, that was a new one on me. I knew that on my deed there was an easement for the utility company to maintain their transmission lines, but I didn't recall it mentioning that area being open to the general public for whatever they wanted. I told the three jerks (drunk, rude, and aggressive) that I didn't think that they were right, but I'd let the game warden tell me. They literally told me to f*** off while I phoned for the game warden from my cell phone.

About a half an hour later the game warden arrived. In the interim, a fellow who owns property that adjoins mine had stopped by to chat with me as I sat in my truck on the road. We explained the situation to the game warden and I showed the warden where their 4X4 truck was parked on my property, leaving deep ruts.

Okay, now you have the picture. Here is what happened. First the game warden called for backup. Second he called for a tow truck to come get the hunter's 4X4. About the time the tow truck got there, the drunk and rude hunters popped out of the woods. The wardens (there were a few of them there now along with the state police) began to question the hunters. After a brief quite discussion, the hunters began shouting, pointing at the power lines and moving about aggressively.

That was it. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif The next thing I saw was the three hunters being cuffed, their truck being towed away, and the state police taking their weapons and logging them in his book. Apparently they went to jail, lost their truck, lost their firearms, and, as far as I know, still haven't posted bail and are still in jail. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif I guess you don't screw with the game warden! I was told little of the details except that I did the right thing; I didn't confront them and I called the game warden and let him do his job. The warden told me that he doubted that they would be back. Somehow I believe him.

I don't live at that property, and it is about 40 minutes from my house. Fortunately I do not now have anything there for them to steal or tear up besides my property itself. Some people are just jerks. It still ticks me off that every time I go to my property I have to bring several trash bags that I fill with trash that has been tossed from the road by motorists along the edge of my property. I must be the only person who doesn't throw anything out my window. I don't smoke, and I always take my food wrappers etc. home with me and put them in my trash can. It really isn't that hard to do! Oh well, off the subject. Good luck. The game warden would definitely be a place to start!

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm a big believer in covering your tracks. Document and photograph everything. Take notes of your conversations with your neighbor and what he said along with the date and time.

You haven't posted your land and only had one general conversation about property boundries with your neighbor. Step one is to aproach him and mention that you found those feeders on your land and that you don't allow hunting, tresspassing and recreational drinking on your property.

You must mark your boundries!!!!!!!!

You have to post your boundries with no hunting signs and paint the trees purple!!!!!

After you have done the basics and can document it, then you go to the authorities when he violates the law.

I think it would be premature to call in the Game Warden or Sherif right now.

 

[DocHeb]

To-do list:

1. Take two hours and read the entire thread Help! I need legal advice re: easements . This will educate you in the fact that even though you are right, you may not win in the end.

2. Contact a surveyor and have the entire property lines staked, and have irons placed in the corners. Have the surveyors shoot lines to the tree stands and record them on the on the survey. Place a fence six feet in from the property line (to allow for maintainance), and have the surveyor record the fence line on the paper survey in relation to the property line. Mail a copy to the dufus neighbor.

3. Call the sheriff and report trespassing - insist that a report be written and obtain the report number from the sheriff. Often the police will try to get out of making a report, but insist on it being done. Document that the tree stands are indeed on your property.

4. Call the Game Warden/DNR as described in other posts.

5. Take pictures of everything. Start a log of dates/time/person containing every interaction and conversation you have regarding this matter. Keep copies of all letters, reports, surveys, etc.

6. Make sure that your property/fire insurance is up-to-date and is either a "replacement" policy, or the insured amount is adequate to rebuild.

7. The next time you're alone and talking to the neighbor, tell him your worried that, since you don't live there, things can happen to your property - but (with a true stare-into-his-eyes-non-blinking-make-no-mistakes-about-it manner) tell him that if something does happen it is amazing how similiar events seem to happen in groups. He'll know exactly what you're referring to.

8. Never make a threat that you're not ready to implement. People like your neighbor are bullies and are used to people being afraid of them and giving in without a fight.

 

[GrayBeard]

It's a touchy situation but it sounds like you must make a stand or this clown is going to take over.
Not sure of Tx. law but where I am It's a good idea to have all your boundries clearly marked. 'Not likely, but if the guy sees the "posted" signs he may think better of it /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
In Pa. the trespass laws are enforced by the police not the game wardens.
In addition to posting the land, send the guy a "registered letter"(possibly from your attorney? ) so there's no confusion that he's aware of your position.
Again in my state the initial (no warning) trespass fine is rather "nominal"
but if there is official notification involved , that becomes a whole different "ball game".
Good luck.
GrayBeard