HST or More HP ?

[MacMurphy]

I am looking at purchasing my first tractor for use on our small farm. The tasks that I envisage are:
* A little slashing of what stock avoid
* Spraying of weeds along the driveway sides - 500m
* Some grader work here and there
* Personal vegetable patch cultivation
* Fencing of paddocks with the post hole digger
* Laying of poly pipes to troughs in paddocks from dam
* FEL work here and there whilst building the house and general works
* Mowing of 7 acres of lawn around the house site and gardens
* Preparation includig ripping and maintenance of a 5 acre olive grove

The total farm is 80 acres however most of this is simply grazing and does not require tractor work. I am currently torn between purchasing a HST tractor or a larger manual tractor for the same price ? The unit will be mostly used for mowing the lawns by my wife and I however she has no trouble with the concept of a manual transmission.

I was looking at a Daedong CK30HST (Kioti in the USA) as this appears to be excellent value however this model is not compatible with a MMM so the HST's only real advantage here is ease of operation, alternativly I could opt for a unit with greater HP in a manual transmission (Kubota MX 5000) but... as I've never owned one before I have no idea which way to turn. My greatest fear is spending this amount of money on a tool and finding out that it doesn't do the job. For example with the CK30HST I was quoted on a 1800mm (6 ft) rear finishing mower and I checked the specs only to find this unit requires a PTO HP of 21-43 and the CK30HST tractor has a PTO HP of 23.5hp which is at the bottom end of the required range, is this a problem ? I don't know until I finally use it to cut grass...

Help and advice would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks

Murph

 

[Bird]

Murph, you're faced with the age old problem of something small and light enough to mow the lawn, but big and heavy enough to do the other farm chores. Whether we're talking about tractors, or boats, cars, pickups, or airplanes, it's hard to find one the right size for all the uses we have. I figure I'd have to have at least 4 or 5 to always have the right size. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif I would think 23.5 PTO hp would handle a 6' lawnmower OK (I used a 5' mower with 20 PTO hp and never could even tell I was putting any load on the tractor at all; I think it would have handled a 6' mower just fine had that been what I wanted). However, I used, and prefer, a rear (3-point) mower to the MMM. I also have a great preference for the HST for the chores you outlined. But that's just my personal preference. Either the manual or HST will do the job. I would give up some horsepower for the HST, but there are other people who would go the other way. Personal preferences. I'll bet you like whichever one you buy.

 

[RalphVa]

A friend of mine went with a shuttle shift Kubota of about 43 hp for his 20 acres and similar stuff to do.

I've noticed that all the bed hiller equipment starts with 35 hp requirement. The hiller stuff keeps the wheel prints in between the rows. Otherwise, you need a smaller machine with big, wide turf tires to not compact the soil in vegetable gardens. The Twin Oaks commune used to use a tractor on their garden soil but quit, as they found it compacted the soil too much. They now only use a walk-behind rototiller.

I'm hoping to copy the hiller equipment by bolting a couple disc hillers onto my 2x2 bar that's for my soil ripper and pulling them behind the wheels of my 18.5 hp 4010. A friend gave me the soil ripper, whichs works about like a rototiller (and was a lot cheaper for me). It was originally for an 18 hp JD M. When the hiller discs get here and it dries up again, I can let you all know how it works.

Ralph

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="red"> I would think 23.5 PTO hp would handle a 6' lawnmower OK (I used a 5' mower with 20 PTO hp and never could even tell I was putting any load on the tractor at all; I think it would have handled a 6' mower just fine had that been what I wanted) </font>

Bird, I very rarely find any exception to what you write, but I think a huge disclaimer might need to be added to your statement. Depending on the grass type and the climate conditions, a low PTO HP vs. Deck Size Ratio can either choke on the lawn or mow it easily.

If I recall from your prior posts, much of your life was spend in arrid climates. My inlaws have lived the last 25 years in Texas & New Mexico and my observations of their lawns is that just about anything can mow down what they call grass. I spend a good bit up time in some of the norhtern lattitiudes and find their grass to be much finer and sparcer than mine. Then the folks in the greater mid-west through the mid-atlantic have something that is generally lush and can easily choke a beast of a tractor.

Again, I'm just throwing up a word of caution here for Murph, we don't know his climate or his grass type (but we have a good idea is his not in the USA).

 

[cowboydoc]

For 80 acres and what you want to do I think you would be VERY disappointed in the 23 hp kioti. Without a doubt for your property I would at least go with the kubota MX 5000. The hydro would probably be nice for you but if you can drive a manual transmission vehicle it won't be much different driving the tractor. It's mainly just convenience. If budget is tight though go for more hp over the hydro, especially for your land size and for your projects.

 

[PBinWA]

I think for 80 acres you are going to want the bigger tractor. There is an advantage to HST for tilling in that it allows you to really creep along. I think the HST concept takes some getting used to for some drivers (it's not a gas pedal). I tried HST and decided to go with Gear but that was just my preference. It can get a little tiring when doing a lot of back and forth loader work but in general I don't mind the extra effort.

I think it is personal preference thing.

Whatever you choose will be fun to play ... err.... work on!

 

[Bird]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( we don't know his climate or his grass type (but we have a good idea is his not in the USA).
)</font>

You're right, Bob. I was just guessing Australia and of course might be wrong, too. Anyway, I'd agree with everything you said.

 

[_RaT_]

As far as Kubota goes, if your mowing lawns and want a tractor that will take a mid mounted mower which generally is easier to keep an eye on, the largest HP wise you can get is the L3830 with turf tires. A 72" MMM on the L3830 and it will not know it's cutting anything exept very tall and wet grass. It will take a 60" tiller although Mark of CCM here at TBN recommended a 72" to me. Even though you have 80 acres as you mention, it sounds like not much of it will actually need the tractor. HST, GST or shuttle, they all work very well. Your wife would no doubt enjoy the HST once she learns it's proper use.

 

[thcri]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Help and advice would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks

Murph )</font>


Another Murph??? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

murph

 

[frank_f15]

HAVE you considered splitting the difference? the mx5000 i elbeleive is 42 pto hp and something like the L3830 is 32 pto hp and then you can get the HST. just an idea. WELCOME TO THE FORUM.

 

[JASTN70D]

I think of all the applications you list there is only 1 that is a bottom limiter (I.E. size/weight) that would be finish mowing. It seems everything else you need to do is where the adage applies bigger is better. One other point is the % of time spent on the tractor will probably be mowing 70% ???. HST is great for mowing if there our any obstacles to mow around also smaller tractors tend to have smaller turning radius.(Except super steer) I guess if I had to do it I would look for the biggest tractor with the most fitting features that you could use for finish mowing. Hopefully that choice will be large enough for the other chores. If not you may have to consider 2 different units for the jobs. Tough decision. Good luck.!

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Hey Murph!

I am a huge fan of HST.

But if you can only get one of thos, get the Kubota. But I would look at the 3830 closely. Either in HST or shuttle shift.

 

[RickO]

Since you are not doing anything with most of the 80 acres but you will be mowing a lot you don't need a gigantic tractor. I think you would be fine as long as you stay above 30HP.

Mahindra 3015 or Kioti CK30. Either of those will run a 72" RMM and the Mahindra will run a 72" MMM also. Both are heavy enough for what you want and get the HST. My opinion.

 

[Soundguy]

If you can aford enough hp in the HST model... you have a much easier choice. Its when you are faced with a dividing point of a gear model, or an hst model.. and the 2-3 hp may make the difference on the job that you need to be on the fence.

I'm a gear man myself.. all my tractors are standard. However.. that said, there are quite a few people that swear by the HST.. some consider it necescary.. and not optional. If you were doing alot of FEL work.. you'd probably deffinately want hst.. or at least some sort of shuttle or reverser tranny. With the tasks you stated.. both units will work.. you may sacrifice a few hp on the heavy tasks.. but the tractors you are looking at are quite beefy enough to handle the loss for those mentioned tasks.

When size isn't a limit I like to go for as much HP as I can buy... since there's no substitute for not enought hp...

Soundguy

 

[CTyler]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
* Mowing of 7 acres of lawn around the house site and gardens
* Preparation includig ripping and maintenance of a 5 acre olive grove )</font>

The small Kioti would work but these two items deserve further consideration.

Are you mowing hills?
I pull a 6' finish mower with 24 PTO HP on a large frame L3130 @3100+ lbs. It pulls it just fine however...if I were mowing hills a lot I'd want a couple more PTO HP.

Ripping 5 acres...How often do you have to do this?
I'd probably want a couple more HP to speed things up a little.

Not sure what the Kioti model would be but I think a 27-28 PTO HP tractor would cover it. 30 HP would be gravy.

 

[tough451]

Go for the extra HP it is not hard to change gears on a tractor. With 80 acres you have a good size farm. Kuboata with the MX series, JD with the 5003 series and Massy with the 400 series are all great bargin priced Utility tractors which I think in the long run you will be glad you bought atleasta 40hp pto tractor. Even if its in pasture you will have to mow it ocasionaly. But whatever you do look at all your choices.