How would a TBL like a Kubota B21 handle hauling dirt up and down hills

[dfkrug]

I followed your B21 rebuild back in the day and just curious can you comment on the Kioti CK as a TLB? No question that the
CK30 is 3000 Lbs naked and has 9 more HP but is it as "integrated" as the B21 frame wise out of the box?

There is no question that the B21 is an integrated TLB and the CK30 I have is not. The big difference is I
have to switch seats to use the hoe on the latter.

The B21 uses a diverter for hydraulic power to the hoe, which is a better way to go, tho the Kioti
approach works OK.

As for the underpinnings of the 2 machines, I have pointed out to Kioti and others that the CKs have
a very vulnerable hyd system underneath, which I have protected with my custom subframe. The
B21 has a big and separate hyd reservoir with a flat bottom underneath. Its ground clearance is
a bit less due to smaller wheels.

Kioti's OEM subframe for the 2475 provides some underside protection, but I do not like how far it makes
the hoe stick out back. The departure angle of my CK setup is better, and I STILL hit the ground
on some places on my property. The B21 IS smaller and more maneuverable with better departure angle.

 

[dfkrug]

But, flow is important for speed, especially when doing two functions at once on a backhoe.
Not as important as pressure of course.

Are all 8 gpm available to implements on the B21? And is that the total gpm available? Kioti has 12.7 total, with about
4 dedicated to steering, leaving the rest for implements. This is real nice when carrying really heavy loads in the loader.

The one notable difference between the JD955 and the CK comparison I made above is that the JD put out
only about 7+ GPM to the implement pump, vs. 8.3 on the CK. To get the same speed performance, the JD had
to run faster BUT I find that 6-7 GPM is optimal in most cases. This means I am rarely over 2000 RPM with the
CK.

Kubota is good about publishing accurate B21 specs in spec sheets and brochures. Kioti is annoying with their
misleading "total hyd flow" spec. You have to get deep into the Kioti service manual to find out what is
available from the implement pump (8.3GPM). The full 8.5GPM is available to the hoe on the B21, but the
engine struggles a bit when you are at full pressure and flow.

The B26 specs are harder to find, but they went to dual pumps for the hoe, and I think they upped the
hyd pressure and the engine gets a much-needed 25% hp boost.

 

[Carl_NH]

Dave,

Thanks for the explanation on the Kioti - I know you have a wealth of experience in these machines. When I was buying back in 2001 there were no real choices for a compact TLB like there are today - with Yanmar, Kioti, and the B Series BH setups.

I had a Kubota L175 with a loader and 3PTH backhoe that I rebuilt and had sand blasted/painted so I got to know the local dealer here pretty well. It was a good machine - no power steering, and the 3PT BH was not very robust for rocky ground and it hung off the back and R&R of the BH was not fun at all.

When I tested the B21 BH - it was night and day over the L175 and the L35 was just a bit too big.

On the Hyd flow for the B21 - I always thought the 8.5 GPM was the combination of PS pump and Hydraulic pump so thanks for clearing that up. I don't very often run over 1500-1800 RPM unless I am doing stump digging. I find the higher RPM on the BH almost too fast to operate smoothly.

For me the downsides for the B21 are the lack of the utility offerings out there today like a QA FEL setup and attachments, Hyd thumb and QA BH bucket. I have seen a QA FEL setup for the B21 a long time ago - Does anyone know if they are still made or available?

Carl

 

[dfkrug]

I find the higher RPM on the BH almost too fast to operate smoothly.

I think you are finding a similar optimal flow rate for the hoe, around 7GPM, that I like.

The B26 really fixes many limitations of the B21, if that size works for you. I love the B21's
maneuverability, and the B26 still has that. I can live with R4s, but would not like them
in many cases.

If I was in the mkt today for a new tractor, I would seriously consider the new-and-improved
Kioti CK20, which is now called the CK2510HST. Similar size/weight to the B21/B26, but only
60-70% of the price. Size matters, and a smaller CUT would have helped me in a few cases
around my mountainous property.

 

[Carl_NH]

I think you are finding a similar optimal flow rate for the hoe, around 7GPM, that I like.

The B26 really fixes many limitations of the B21, if that size works for you.

If I was in the mkt today for a new tractor.

Yes and yes, I just can't justify it to myself, let alone the significant other! With only 500 hours - less than 40 hours a year - two years ago I almost got a used B26 (Gary Fowler on here bought it) as I couldn't sell the B21 in time.

Once I retire in 8-10 years I intend to do small landscaping jobs, and maybe that's the time to upgrade as I am sure there will be many more machines, options and features. Until then I will just look at the new and different machines and drool..