How safe are first generation airbags?

[daugen]

Just about every human being on Earth now knows Takata made air bags that can kill you, instead of save your life.
But this isn't about them at all.
My understanding through reading is that American trucks at least, not sure about cars, encased the air bags in different containment structure design which
was also heavier duty.
My concern is over the propellant. Some of these airbags are over 40 years old now. But we don't ever hear of anyone
with a problem with an old American car or truck. Or do we? Anyone know?
What's going on with those old actuators and how well do they still work. Can you just unplug the connector to disarm?
What happens to the chemicals inside...

Like a few of you...I have a "fun car". Sometimes I look at a car in that 70's period and wonder if the cool ride is worth it if
my head takes a hit likened to that of a shotgun. Now if it just went hiss and didn't work, that works for me...but wouldn't it be nice
if they made a really simple owner friendly cartridge for these air bags that we could replace ourselves. Like the little gas bottles in marine
flotation vests... But instead it's a dealer big thing.

If you have knowledge of how these things were made, and hold up, I bet a lot of us would appreciate the education.
Some of us reading this likely have those airbags right in front of us when we drive.
thanks
Drew

 

[dodge man]

First off I don’t think there are many cars with 40 year old air bags. Maybe 30 tops.

My bet is they would work fine. The problem with early air bags was small and or old people. They were too powerful. If you aren’t small, I wouldn’t sweat it.

 

[disney]

Greetings all, I am not going to devote the time to look up all the actual statistics on the large # of lives airbags have saved, vs. the very small # of deaths in relation. Yes early air bags deployed with more force, some of that may well have been because they had to in order to deploy fast enough to protect an occupant not wearing a seat belt. Current air bags actually contain two propellant charges, and depending on many factors (rate of deceleration, is the belt buckled, maybe even distance to seat) they can fire only one, trigger the second after a delay, or both simultaneously. Unfortunately many children perished when airbags were first introduced because parents did not understand, or follow guidelines not to let young children in front seats, especially with rear facing child seats. If I knew I was going to be in a severe head on collision, I would rather take my chances with an airbag, than not, and I live in FL where ours are the most susceptible to issues due to high humidity.

 

[daugen]

Disney, I think the stats were about one percent, or maybe it was a tenth of one percent...but if it's you, that's the biggest number of them all.
In other words one percent of the early bags involved in a collision hurt someone.

Air bags are bad news if one's seat belt is not on. Lot of folks found that out the hard way.

I'm just asking all this in case I see a car in that era I'd like to collect, be the "fun car". Just concerned about
hidden dangers. Most of my career was in insurance, including being an underwriter, so I'm very safety oriented.

If it costs 500 bucks to replace a 1978 Olds Toronado driver air bag, for example, and I have no idea what it costs, then we know
there is a solution to the problem and it has a known cost. I'm not sure what we know at this point, nor am I trying to invent a problem.
I'm just asking to perhaps stay away from certain cars.

I think it's interesting that MB waited until 1981 to bring an air bag only to their S class.
I bet that's a nice cheap part to replace...

 

[JJZ 109]

I don't know about airbags from way back when. All I know is that I've been waiting a long time for the passenger side replacement parts to show up at Ford for my 2007 Mustang GT. I'd be surprised if it ever happens.

 

[oosik]

I wonder - what defines "first generation" for air bags? Is it by model year of the car, by year of manufacturer of the air bag - something else?? Do these air bags have a date of expiration? What is an owner expected to do if there is a date of expiration??

 

[schmism]

fist gen? My 2001 bmw 330i just got its 2 airbags replaced. But thats hardly first gen. First gen would be the air bag that performed flawlessly several years ago when i stuffed my 1991 318is into a telephone pole at on a cold march night and got the air bag experience. (low speed event).

But first gen airbags (90's) were not multi stage either. new ones will deploy faster (harder) or slower/softer depending on speed. that requires considerably more tech in the ammonium nitrate filled "expander" aka controlled explosion maker

 

[PILOON]

At one point they were actually re building airbags but the Gov't soon put a stop to that as all sorts of trash and reliability issues came up.
AS a result a friends nice clean 6 year old Mercedes was scrapped simply because his teen hit a curb rather hard, enough to set off most bags.
It was low mileage nicely detailed.

 

[Btown]

Air bags are bad news if one's seat belt is not on. Lot of folks found that out the hard way.

A lot of people find out the hard way when they don’t where there seat belt during a crash or rollover. Let’s not forget that yes the first air bags did injure some people, but lots were more injured without them. Are they perfect today, no. Will they be better in the future? Probably. Seat belts and airbags save lives every day.

 

[daugen]

Seat belts and airbags save lives every day.

For sure. My biggest challenge is to remember to put my seatbelt on when using the FEL or mowing roadsides near ditches.
Otherwise my area is so flat it lulls you into stupidity...

I spent ten years with a small town volunteer fire company helping the rescue squad pull crushed bodies out of cars. I often helped with the Portapower. Including
kids dying right in front of me from horrible injuries. I've held a towel on a guy's head who was partly scalped going into the windshield, no belts...
You see this stuff up close, really makes you not want to go there yourself.

One of the neat things about TBN is they list similar threads at the bottom of the screen. I think I'll go read Dave's thread on Takata bags.
But I wish someone would start a thread about replacing old airbags, what it costs, how hard it is, can you do it yourself? What about the impact actuators?
I don't know enough, hope someone here does.

considering that airbags can easily save my life, and the folks I care the most about, who are likely to be riding in my car or truck,
what price do I put on a replacement airbag job? How much should I spend to save your life in my truck?
Sounds stupid, but it's not...
And ask your wives how much I should spend too.

there's an ethical dilemma here if you take a passenger and you know the bags don't work.
It's not my issue now at all, I don't own a 70's or 80's American vehicle. Good thing that the fun stuff in the 60's didn't have bags
so not an issue. You just had to keep your 442 out of the ditch...
I'm going to sell a 2004 Jaguar XJR (black on black James Bond car) bought on a whim for not much money, it's running perfectly and that's when you sell...and it has very low miles so I'm
always worried about the market value impact of racking up miles. Not what I want. Want something I can drive and not worry about it for a fun car.
So I'm looking in this age range with the early bags and I'm wondering, what am I buying into?

When you don't know you ask questions. I think Door 1 is disconnect the bag, Door 2 is replace the bag and Door 3 is replace bag and actuator.
If one of you is an auto engineer, and you are even allowed to talk about this...(it's all in the lawsuits) can you tell me/us what door to go through
or maybe as they say in New Jersey, fugeddaboutit.

 

[3930dave]

If it costs 500 bucks to replace a 1978 Olds Toronado driver air bag, for example, and I have no idea what it costs, then we know
there is a solution to the problem and it has a known cost. I'm not sure what we know at this point, nor am I trying to invent a problem.
I'm just asking to perhaps stay away from certain cars.

I think it's interesting that MB waited until 1981 to bring an air bag only to their S class.
I bet that's a nice cheap part to replace...

Other than short-arm drivers, I don't know of wide-spread problems with first-gen bags. I seem to recall a test somewhere in the last 10 years or so, of a GM gen-1 bag - it deployed fine.

In terms of not deploying, well if you have a 40 y/o vehicle, even in a moderate southern climate, it mostly comes down to how healthy the control system is..... sensor still viable, wiring intact, fuse not corroded.....

At a guess, the one thing I can think of that might disable an airbag itself is total submersion in water.

I wouldn't want to bet my life on a now ancient airbag deploying, but I have no concerns about the original design/build integrity of the thread-title bags.

That historic MB delay is not surprising to me. Often there is advanced tech available in Europe, that is intentionally delayed into the USA market - the concern is liability precedence in US courts - better to let a domestic manufacturer take the lead, IMO.

The Tak bag mess (I've rambled plenty in that thread, so will keep this short...) was nothing more than negligent design combined with lax vehicle OEM QC, and zero govt oversight. Yep, mandatory "safety" enhancements end up working out real well when the project leader is Charlie Foxtrot.

Rgds, D.

 

[1stDeuce]

Daugen, I am an auto engineer.

I can tell you point blank that your fears are unfounded.

When I think of "first gen" airbags, I think about those released in the 90's, which were single stage. Earlier versions than that were rare as hens teeth. If I were to buy a "classic" car with an airbag, I would probably just leave it be. Worst case, it may fail to deploy. Best case, it works as intended. Either way, you're not worse off, particularly if you're wearing your seatbelt.

The single stage airbags of the 90's work fine when used with seatbelts. As pointed out above, they can be a problem for very small people, particularly if not belted in. Rear facing child seats should NEVER be put in a front seat location, unless the airbag can be turned off. (Trucks only, as far as I know...)

Worrying about an airbag injuring you in an accident and disconnecting it is akin to not wearing your seatbelt because you want to be able to jump clear of an accident. Poorly advised at best.

Even the famed Takata airbags have injured very few people compared to the number they've saved. If you own a car with one in a VERY humid environment, you should probably deal with it. In normal environments, I don't think there have been many issues.

In general, when a person in an accident does end up with airbag attributed injuries, you can be certain that their injuries most certainly would have been worse without the airbag. Yes, there are exceptions, but the chances of you being the exception are probably far less than getting struck by lightning.

Go about your life and don't worry about it. You'll be fine.

 

[daugen]

well I decided to just google it, since now AI is being used
looks like we really need to read our manuals, if we have them, and unless after 1992,
some form of inspection seems to be suggested.

. Many automakers such as Mercedes-Benz placed airbag replacement labels on all vehicles sold in the U.S. through 2002. Those labels called for airbags to be replaced after 15 years. But after much research, automakers have concluded that airbags produced after 1992 will last the lifetime of the vehicle. That means that all modern cars that have been built since 1992 contain airbags that should function perfectly.

Today, replacement labels and recommended dealer inspections for airbags are a thing of the past. If you own an older car, check your owner's manual to see if the manufacturer requires airbag replacement or inspection. You can also check for airbag information on the driver's side door jamb or on the back of your sun visors.

 

[Fixastuff]

Go grab a bag from the junkyard run some juice to it and make it pop. It’s fun and educational. better than running you car into a wall to test. lol.

 

[aba4430]

I have a 2000 328Ci and the passenger side takata was replaced in 2015. Then got another recall notice for the drivers side, and then again a second time for the passenger side. Got the drivers and passenger side airbags replaced in March, 2022 at a dealership in Pittsburgh. Since the steering wheel trim was not available, only the inflator module got replaced on the wheel.

Anyone can check for open recalls at NHTSA. If you drive a car that has an open airbag recall, get it taken care off, irrespective of whether you live in humid regions or not.

Edit: I also drive a 1998 Z3. The airbags on it are the originals and not under recall.

 

[ultrarunner]

I know a showroom like new 2002 325iT BMW that had recall replacement. On the way home the airbag light went on and service department would not quote repair saying it’s time and material and could easily run thousands of dollars… in other words a blank check?

A very petit older retired woman suffered bad airbag injury but she was so small in stature the seat was all the way forward with a cushion seat insert to get her closer…

Her face looked horrible for a long time with nose and bone fracture and the impact was slow speed single vehicle in a parking lot… I want to say 1980’s Buick… really no damage to the car.

 

[aba4430]

I know a showroom like new 2001 BMW that had recall replacement. On the way home the airbag light went on and service department would not quote repair saying it’s time and material and could easily run thousands of dollars… in other words a blank check?

A very petit older retired woman suffered bad airbag injury but she was so small in stature the seat was all the way forward with a cushion seat insert to get her closer…

Her face looked horrible for a long time with nose and bone fracture and the impact was slow speed single vehicle in a parking lot… I want to say 1980’s Buick… really no damage to the car.

Adding to my previous post. No affiliation with the dealership but it was Bobby Rahal BMW in the Pittsburgh area. They did a fantastic job and used the existing airbag trim on the wheel and just replaced the inflator module. My service receipt includes the inflator module serial number. I had no airbag lights etc. If it is a recall, the company will take care of it if the car is within scope and in service.