How Rought Is Too Rough?

snmhanson · Apr 9, 2004

I just got my first tractor, a B7800. So far it seems like a great machine and I can't wait to put it through it's paces. However, being a tractor novice I am concerned about how hard I can push it. Do I need to worry very much about over doing it or will the tractor just refuse to work if I try to push it too hard. For example, I was trying to scrape off several inches of rock filled soil today with the bucket and several times the tractor stopped moving either because I was trying to dig too deep or because I hit a large enough rock to stop it. Sometimes the wheels would spin and the tractor would "buck" a little bit and sometimes the wheels would just spin. I tried to minimize it from happening and stop as quickly as I could when it did occur but it nonetheless happened quite a few times. Is this bad for the tractor or just mainly inconvenient for me? Also, when I was moving some pretty heavy soil I would go in for a load and if I wasn't careful the tractor would bog down and stall. This happened twice. I was keeping the RPMs down around 1200-1400 and will in the near future for the break-in period so I'm sure it will be more capable in the future when I can operate it at it's rated RPMs. However, I will probably just push it that much harder at that point. I'm sure as I progress up the learning curve I will figure out what the tractor physically can and can't do and will also develop my skills but I want to make sure I don't damage it during that process. Thanks for any help and advice.

Matt

GregJ · Apr 9, 2004

Matt,
Congratulations on your purchase. I think you are experiencing exactly what most of us first time tractor owners experienced. They are fairly complex machines and take some time getting used to. One thing though, I believe you should run at a little higher rpms. My dealer told me to run mine at around 2000 rpms during the breakin process. I have also learned here that it is important to vary the rpms. I think you should probably avoid bogging your engine down and killing it during the breakin period. Keeping your rpms up should help that. The spinning tires and bouncing issue..... that won't be a problem after you have gotten used to your B7800 and the FEL joystick.

Have fun,
Greg

_RaT_ · Apr 9, 2004

Do you have HST? Are you using the front loader to scrape or cut a few inches of soil?
With HST, you will find it will take a little practice to learn how to use it most effectively. With the loader trying to cut the soil, you will find it difficult to ever do it accurately/consistently since the cutting angle of the bucket will need to be so accurate it makes it tough. Boxscrapers do this job much easier. The problem with the loader is with all that leverage hanging out front and it being difficult to actually see the cutting edge bite, your more likely going to be to aggresive or not enough. If this is your only tool for now, practice learning the visual clues that show when the bucket is parallel to the surface. Use the lowest gear. Don't get to aggresive with the bucket otherwise you can make a mess. Trying to put the cut dirt back is tough with just the loader and get things level.

ronjhall · Apr 9, 2004

Matt

Congrats on the new tractor. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I am concerned about how hard I can push it. 

You can run the engine at 2000 rpm with no problems all day. Try to very the RPMs during the first 50 hours.

 Sometimes the wheels would spin and the tractor would "buck" a little bit and sometimes the wheels would just spin. 

This will probably put more wear on yourself and the tires than the tractor it's self.

How much weight do you have on the 3PH?

Are you using 4WD while using the FEL?

 Also, when I was moving some pretty heavy soil I would go in for a load and if I wasn't careful the tractor would bog down and stall. 

One of the first lessons to be learned with a HST is to let up on the HST pedal when the engine starts to bog. Pushing down on the pedal requires more power from the engine. Letting up will require less power.

If you need more power to the rear wheels shift the range selector to "L".

Here is a link to a thread on HST. Some of the links do not work. But the HST info is there.
Click Here

To level ground the most recommended attachment is a Box Blade or Tooth Bar. Your TBN Profile does not list what you have.

If you have a box blade here is a link.

Click Here

riptides · Apr 9, 2004

Well, I have really torn up some stuff with my B7800. I discovered it worked best at around 2000+RPM's, FWD and Low gear while using the FEL to remove mother nature.

Low gear is the key when ripping into stuff. like trails and top soil. Once your under something use the FEL to lift it out.... that is the finer part of this work, proper FEL positioning.

That should separate the beginner from the expert (FEL positioning), it is a learned experience.

Good Luck!
-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Egon · Apr 9, 2004

Matt:

That's a nice tractor you have. Wish I could afford one but my little B7100 will have to do. 2200 hours on it.

On my tractor wheel spin is a common occurence. I like to keep the revs up so the hydraulics are faster. Use the differential lock a lot but when doing this the rear may slide over.

Main thing is to not run at something. Ease into it and use the hydro pedal as though it had an egg on it. Use the lowest gear range also. Using the loader take thin layers and use the curl for traction control by moving it back and forth in small incriments. Try and start a level approach and then keep working on extending the level area. This allows the tractor to sit even and makes the bucket controlling much easier. Try not to spin and make holes as these will make it tougher to maintain the level if you again drive in one.

As others have mentioned rear weight will help. Seat time is the most important factor and a gentle touch on the controls really helps.

Attached a picture of some dirt work done with a B7100. Shows an area where dirt was removed . The depth is indicated by the bank behind the tractor,

Egon

Henro · Apr 9, 2004

Matt,

One thing I would recommend you do is to park the tractor on a flat place, set the brake, put the loader and any 3ph implement you may have on the ground, and then lay on your back and slip under the tractor and take a look at what is down there, hanging out to be wacked off (or jammed up) by a stick or whatever.

I know when I got my tractor I did not realize that there were a lot of opportunities to jam sticks in linkages, unprotected hydraulic lines, and filters sticking out asking to be knocked off. Including the fuel filter!

Knowing what is under there is a good thing.

I had something go wrong with the front drive shaft cover on my B2910 shortly after I got it. I think it was not installed correctly, and the plastic cover somehow got caught by a U joint, an one end was pulled in. It was fixed under warrenty, and I told the dealer that I did not think I did it, but that I did not know for sure.

Point is, I might have, because at the beginning I did not realize how much under the tractor is so unprotected...knowing what is under there can help you know how rough of ground you may want to run the tractor on.

I actually made a little skid plate to cover the area below the front drive shaft, just in case. I've attached a photo... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Bolts to the loader frame and comes off real easy for oil changes.

There is a chance I may make something to protect the rear portion of the tractor bottom as well...

Just a thought in case you have not taken a look under there yet. I did not think to at first... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

snmhanson · Apr 9, 2004

Thanks for the replies all. I will turn up the RPMs and vary them a bit more today when I get out there and see how big a difference it makes. Also, I hope either today or tommorow to get a box blade for it to make leveling and ripping easier. I don't have any weight on the 3PH but the back tires are loaded. I have a fork I could put on the back and put a big rock or something on it if it would help (and wouldn't just fall off). And I will crawl under the tractor and take a look today before I start it. Didn't even think to do that but you're right Henro, it probably is a very good idea. Thanks for all the input.

Matt

MadDog · Apr 9, 2004

Very nice enhancement, Henro. ...gonna take a look under mine this evening.

TresCrows · Apr 9, 2004

You are running the engine at to low an RPM. You probably need to go into low range gear also. Additionally, scraping a bit of topsoil or light digging is with in the capability of your tractor with the FEL, HOWEVER, an FEL main and designed for purpose is scooping--NOT digging. That is what backhoes are for. Also, for scrapping and ripping you will have better success with a boxblade. The Boxblade/FEL combo is an awesome team. The box scrapes and even digs and rips and the FEL scoops, moves and spreads and then the box finish spreads and levels. Go get yourself a box blade /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif. Also--just me--I would not ram my loader into rocks or roots--it really is not suited for that and you could bend the frame, bucket or FEL. One more thing--try not to bog your tractor engine down, when it does let up on it and give it more throttle or take a smaller bite---technique just has to be learned and it takes time /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif. J

DanR67 · Apr 10, 2004

Try not to spin and make holes as these will make it tougher to maintain the level if you again drive in one.

Egon

Hi folks,

I've put @ 9 hrs on my B7610 - had it 2 weeks tomorrow - but I've worked it a bit. I'm still working on the finer points of drive & FEL coordination - making DEEP ruts is suprisingly easy! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I have typically kept my rpms @ 1700 - bumping up to 2000 - 2200 if working the FEL hard or *in transit* to my brush pile.

Another "breaking in period" question: how does everyone feel about frequent stopping / starting engine vs. letting engine run @ low idle?

I've probably spent 12 - 13 hrs WITH the tractor - but I've mostly left it "purring" @ 1000 rpms while I'm filling up the lawn cart (by hand), for example. I figure it's easier on the engine / starter - and I've only just topped up the fuel for the first time. (@ 4.5 out of 5.3 gal capacity) Environmentally speaking - I'd like to shut if off in between "brush runs". My wife swears the dealer said "let it run" - I don't remember - I had orange in my eyes..... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Very good advice here for a new operator, btw - thanks!

Dan

BXMMCC · Apr 10, 2004

If you want trouble free longevity, don't even think of working the tractor (especially a new engine) at 1200-1400 RPM. That's called lugging and it's a definite NO-NO. Please!
Also, when working, keep it in low range. High is OK for transport, or after it's broken in, light dry grass cutting on level ground.

SCB · Apr 10, 2004

Dealer told me to not let it idle too much in the beginning. Also told me to run it at 70-80 % while working. But I have a bx-23 which is a different motor.

fishdoc · Apr 10, 2004

I've got 18 hrs on my 7610 in two weeks. I'm clearing brush with the FEL and blade and I've tilled up about 1/4 acre along with grass cutting. I've scraped paint and gotten it dirty making it do what I believe tractors do. I've knocked things around underneath already. The parking brake linkage came undone once and I bent the flimsy speed control thingy against the pedal causing a surprise when I didn't stop when letting off. All easily fixed. This little tractor is amazing. I make it a point to run the engine at variable speeds between 1800 and PTO speed and its never at one speed for more than about 15 minutes. I didn't get this thing to baby it and really the hard work I have for it will all be done in 100 hours... I can't wait for 50 hours so this is what I'm doing. If something wears out prematurely then so be it...... I doubt if it will.

Egon · Apr 10, 2004

It has been alleged that the most wear on an engine occurs at startup. It is also said that long periods of idling will carbon up the rings and valves.

Keeping Rpm's up while working makes for faster hydraulic's response.

And as an afterthought; check for loose bolts on a regular schedule.

Egon

fishman · Apr 10, 2004

snmhanson,

If you're going to be doing a lot of loader work do yourself a favor and get a toothbar. I ran my 2910 for the first year and a half without one, then popped the $300 for a toothbar. The difference is night and day in capabilities.

And as Trescrows said, don't ram your loader into objects. But it's ok to push up to them and engage the object, then use the tractor and loader hydraulics to lever and push on it. If your tractor starts to hop and jump like you're talking about, let up on the hydro pedal. Less pedal = more torque, something it took me a while to get used to.

With the toothbar, the loader bucket has something to jam into or under the offending object and pry on it. While others have stated that the loader isn't for digging, I've found mine to be quite capable of digging out mixed dirt and rock . . . much better at it than my box blade. It's no backhoe, I'll be the first to admit, but a toothbar equipped loader is a pretty formidable tool on the 7800/2910 chassis.

I used mine the other day to clear a 30x40 area grown up in brush and trees to 6" diameter in preparation for construction of a pole barn. The trees I either pushed over or broke off and pushed everything up into a pile, dumped some diesel on it, then flicked a match at it and drank a couple of cold ones while I manned the garden hose. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif What would have taken me a day or two and guaranteed a case of poison ivy took me less than an hour and allowed me to vent a few frustrations and release some angst. Life is good.

Anyway, you are on the right track. Up those rpm's and have fun.

frank_f15 · Apr 10, 2004

( I was keeping the RPMs down around 1200- )

Thats not enough rpm. u need to run about 1800 to 2000 for good loader work. just vary the rpm once in awhile, and make sure u stay in 4wd for loader work.

snmhanson · Apr 10, 2004

Thanks for all the advice. I am now keeping the RPMs in the 1800-2200 range with an occasional jolt up to 2500 and not keeping them at the same speed for more than five to ten minutes. I also keep it in FWD and low gear most of the time but I ran it in medium for a little while while I was moving and spreading some soil from my big dirt pile (is medium ok for regular FEL work like that or should I always keep it in low when working?). The tractor runs much better of course and is more fun to use. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I still notice that the tractor is working a little harder when scooping dirt with the FEL but it does the job and doesn't bog down now. There's always going to be SOME noticable change in power when using the FEL, right? Occasionally when I get a large load the bucket refuses to come up at first but that is because of my technique rather than any lack power. If I remember to scoop the blade up as I'm digging in I can get an overflowing load and come away just fine. Anyway, things are improving and I am about twice as productive as I was during that first hour of use. I still only have about three hours total though. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif I'm going to have to block out a few days in my schedule so I can get some hours under my belt. And I'm going shopping next week for a box blade and maybe a tooth bar, that should help with my ripping project. Thanks again for the input.

Matt

Henro · Apr 10, 2004

And I'm going shopping next week for a box blade and maybe a tooth bar 

WHAT???? No toothbar yet?

I think you got that maybe in front of the wrong attachment!

No, on second thought...its in the wrong sentence! No maybe's about either the box blade and tooth bar...you need both...trust us... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

DanR67 · Apr 12, 2004

( It has been alleged that the most wear on an engine occurs at startup. It is also said that long periods of idling will carbon up the rings and valves.

Egon )

Damned if you do - damned if you don't! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I opted to shut the engine off this weekend instead of prolongued idling. With @ 7.5 hours or *work* (Spring Cleanup is DONE!) - I only added 2.5 hrs to the hour-meter. (Doing mostly leaf pickup - so lots of raking & dumping in the cart - not much FEL work.)

Like fishdoc mentioned - I too had a minor problem with the parking brake - a small cotter pin went missing, and the lever arm came our of the parking brakes' "toothed bracket". Replaced the cotter pin with a small finish nail - presto - all OK.

Went through the maintenance checks - did my first 10 hr FEL loader greasing - quick & easy. I DID find two small bolts (hinge pin retainers) were not fully tightened!! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Like fishdoc mentioned - the B7610 is one great little tractor!

Dan