How much plastic is on a Deere?

[LittleBear]

I have narrowed my search for a 50-60 hp tractor to either JD or NH. I have read threads where JD has a lot more plastic than NH. Plastic fenders do not bother me, but plastic engine or driveline parts seems odd to me. I'll end up getting either an 05 or 25 JD or a TN NH model. How much plastic is on a JD, and is it done for engineering considerations or cost cutting?

 

[Panache]

On my JD5200 the plastic are the mainly the skins, fender hood, side panels etc. There are some plastics in the fuel system such as the filter holder and the like. I don't remember seeing plastics elseware. They seemed to be in the same places I find plastics on my truck.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

There is a PVC plastic shield around the 1" driveline under the tractor too.

Plastic is not bad per say, but it has to be done right. The biggest critism of Deere's plastic is that its not very rigid. If you look at the way NH does their plastic hoods and fenders you will find that they all have a metal skin that gives them some rigidity.

 

[rockyridgefarm]

As a Deere owner, I cannot say enough anbout how great the plastic is. Deere has received a number of engineering awards that cite their polymers in use as leading factors in the desig. When i am using mine, even the flex that Neil states is a problem has been an asset.

 

[Cactus]

I weigh 210 lbs and I can stand on the fenders of my JD 4400 and they wont even hardly flex any. I would not be afraid to stand on the hood either.

 

[dmp437]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( and is it done for engineering considerations or cost cutting? )</font>

Both. John Deere is forward thinking. You have to be to remain at the top of the heap for 168 years. John Deere isn't content to play "follow the leader" or continue using the same processes and materials because it's the cheap or easy way out. In order to be a leader it's necessary to innovate. an example is Boeing's new 787. It is primarily made of carbon fiber reinforced plastics or "composites". Think about it; the fuselage and the wings are made of plastic. All large planes up to this point have been aluminum, but now there's a better way. An recent except from the magazine "BusinessWeek" about the 787:

One big plus: Jets made of composites require far fewer parts, so there's less to bolt together. And since these plastics weigh less than aluminum, the planes should burn less fuel. Boeing says the Dreamliner will also improve passenger comfort. Why? The superior strength of the composite fuselage will allow the passenger cabin to withstand higher pressurization -- equal to the air pressure at an altitude of 6,000 feet instead of the usual 8,000 feet. So it's easier to control cabin temperature, humidity, and ventilation.

In particular, pay attention to the first sentence, "far fewer parts". By using plastics Deere's tractors have less parts than the models they replaced resulting in less up front tooling costs, less labor in assembly, and less warehouse space to maintain (for fewer spares). That adds up to a cost savings for Deere (or cost cutting as its called in the initial quote). That cost cutting frees up capital for future research and product improvements while not jeopardizing the integrity of the current product.
As far as plastic engine parts, automobiles are running plastic intakes, throttle bodies, water pumps, oil pans, valve covers, and the tank portion of the radiators (and other stuff you can't see) and few people are even aware of their non-metallic engine parts. Performance is as good or better and maintainance is reduced. As the EU phases in mandatory recycling for automobile manufacturers look for more and more plastics with no degradation of performance or longevity.

 

[bigpete]

The days of judging the quality and reliability of machinery or appliances based upon the amount of plastic used in the design are years behind us. I wouldn't buy a plastic hammer, but it sure is nice swinging one with a composite handle. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[BenA]

Speaking from an observation point, not experience, I would buy the tractor that you like and not worry about the composite materials. The term "plastic" is not always used accurately. There are lots of good tractors out there, however, no one seems to enjoy a reputation of longevity more than John Deere, and few as much. I do not think their intention is to change that perception now, especially as ferce as the competition is.

 

[Cactus]

Excellent post !!!!

 

[Cityboyfarmer]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I have narrowed my search for a 50-60 hp tractor to either JD or NH. I have read threads where JD has a lot more plastic than NH. Plastic fenders do not bother me, but plastic engine or driveline parts seems odd to me. I'll end up getting either an 05 or 25 JD or a TN NH model. How much plastic is on a JD, and is it done for engineering considerations or cost cutting? )</font>

My JD 5205 MFWD has metal fenders, plastic 22.5 gallon fuel tank and a plastic hood. I have dropped a large chunk of sandstone from the raised loader bucket on to the hood and it did not even scratch it. I'm not aware of any plastic engine or drive train components other than plastics used for shields or covers. This is one stout tractor and I am so far very pleased with my purchase. I really like the 22.5 gallon fuel tank. I have run it 22 hours total and added about 13 gallons to top it off. This tractor is the best value I found in my location and the most tractor for my money.

It sounds like you have narrowed your search to two excellent tractor manufacturers and I think you will be happy with either one you decide. I spent time in the NH and JD operating forums educating myself on reliability, resale potential and repair issues before I purchased. I also talked to people who actually owned 5205's and asked them if they would purchase another one. The answer to that question alone will speak volumes. Also contributing to my decision was the JD dealer is 7 miles from my house and on the way home from work, and the fact that the tractor was assembled in Augusta Georgia didn't hurt either. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Partsman2]

Both companies make fine machines. I have a JD 4710 which has a plastic hood and plastic fenders. They flex when you hit something, and won't rust or dent. I think it is a great improvement over steel.

As far as any other plastic components, I would say that if JD is doing it now the other companies will follow suite soon. I wouldn't be concerned with it.

 

[pdub]

I think some good points have been made so far, but I'd like to add my two cents.

First of all, John Deere, New Holland and Case IH all use "ABS" plastic hoods and fenders. I think most people would agree that they would rather have this than sheet metal, which is prone to rust and dents. Then again, some people think that sheet metal makes it a "real" tractor. Its all perception and preference. I don't think this should be the issue at hand.

The issue in my mind is the hoods on the new 3020 and 4020 series. Neil Messick made a good point above about how NH and Case IH use a steel subframe to support the hood. This eliminates any flex of the hood when it is raised. I don't want to cause any cognitive dissonance to 3020 and 4020 owners, but I was rather unimpressed with the way the hoods flexed when they were opened. First of all, my first impression of the tractor was that some cost had been taken out of the product... and to me that is not a good thing unless the surplus curve swings towards the consumer side of the equation (price decreases). Secondly, if I were to open the hood while the engine was hot, I would burn my hood because it rubs against the muffler when it is lifted. I have heard this is a common occurence, especially on the 4020 series.

Now don't get me wrong I think that Deere makes a good product, but a lot of their brand image is due to their brilliant marketing, not necessarily because they have a higher quality product.

 

[JT1972]

Also think its interesting to note that NH and CIH were the first to use the ABS plastics, an earlier post suggested that JD is always on the cutting edge and the first to the market with innovations for the customer. NH has been using the ABS plastic for over five years as well as the sloped hood and the curved boom loader JD has now come with this year.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

They also used the same loader removal system as Deere is now using years ago. The TC30 is striklingly simular. We just traded an old Case 235 with an AgTec loader thats 15 years old that drops off the same way. Not much has changed over the years, its alot of perception.

 

[dmp437]

A little more composite reading >HERE< from the farmer's perspective and >HERE< for the engineering perspective.

 

[Panache]

My JD5200 has a lot of ABS plastic on it. Hood, side panels and fenders. It is 10 years old.

 

[DennoAce]

Coming from heavy equip my whole life, I too was not too fond of the "plastic" hood on my new 4110. However, that is where everything is going and it does have advantages.

All I had to see was a recent Caterpillar machine and a brand new Toro machine - these are both top notch products - both with these types of body panels and I felt much better. If these guys AND JD are doing it, it is for the best.