Buying Advice How much is too much?

[Nitrobay]

When deciding on a new tractor purchase we all consider the size of our property, the tasks the tractor will be used for and the attachments it will be running to determine the the specific HP of the engine / PTO.

It also seems like we can get caught up in a value proposition of, "$2k more gets 10 more HP or a bigger / better transmission". But in the end we have to maintain the more expensive and bigger machine and larger usually equates to higher operating and maintenance costs.

I'm considering a 60 HP tractor because it's only 2k more than the exact chassis tractor with a 47 Hp tractor. Overall weight of tractors are only 200 lbs difference. Lifting capacity is the same. I do not need the 13 extra HP nor the extra HP at the PTO. But it seems like the better value is the larger HP.

I heard a salesman once say that most tractor buyers do not buy the tractor they "need" but instead buy the tractor they "want". And that usually means buying over your needs.

How have you determined how much is enough?

 

[Diggin It]

^^ It gets better. I've read more than one thread here and on other boards that claim that in at least some cases, the engine is the same and the only difference between stated HP is how the engine is programmed.

Buy what you feel you need, not what the salesman wants the commission on.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

I guess it depends on your intentions when you're buying. If you're only buying for the "now", what you need to do now, what implements you've planned for now, the property you live on now, then sure. Buy what fits now. But if you're thinking, hey this tractor will last 20-30 years (or more), what will my needs look like 20 years from now. Or, I really want to buy the field next door, which means I'll need 'xxx' for that. Then, you have to plan for future use as well.

It's always cheaper to buy a little bigger than you need "now", then to have to buy something bigger later, because you didn't plan well with your purchase.

Or, alternately, "This tractor has way too much hp for me!" --

Said No One. Ever.

Between your 2 examples, the 47 and the 60 hp, about the biggest difference in "costs" (other than purchase price), is *maybe* the filters are larger=cost more, *maybe* slightly more fluids to change, and slightly more fuel consumption for same run time.

 

[jeff9366]

When deciding on a new tractor purchase we all consider the size of our property, the tasks the tractor will be used for and the attachments it will be running to determine the the specific HP of the engine / PTO.

Sloping land vs flat land another key variable.

Bare tractor weight first, tractor horsepower second, rear ballast/counterbalance third. (Usually.)

Increasing from 47-horsepower to 60-horsepower MAY require more rear ballast to maintain traction with additional power.

 

[jeff9366]

I heard a salesman once say that most tractor buyers do not buy the tractor they "need" but instead buy the tractor they "want".

And that usually means buying over your needs.

There are occasional T-B-N posts from people who purchase a tractor and feel it is too big. Many of these posts are by neophyte owners in the first twenty hours of operation. I like to think many "grow into" the tractors by 100 hours of operation.


Outnumbering the "too big" posts, perhaps 80:1, are those seeking advice on a new, heavier, more powerful tractor purchase two years after initial tractor purchase.
(This category includes me.) ((Does this category include you?))

Usual reasons:

Current tractor too unstable (too light) for applications.

I want more Loader lift capacity.

I need more horsepower for winter snow blowing.
I need more horsepower to power a wider Bush Hog than I have now.

I wish I had purchased a cab tractor, rather than open station, for winter snow blowing and summer Bush Hogging.

I now need a FEL or Backhoe.

I did not realize how 5,000' altitude would decrease naturally aspirated engine power output.


Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling multiple light implements in order to buy heavier, wider implements for a new, heavier tractor requires a lot of time. Depreciation on implements is generally greater than depreciation on a tractor.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR​

 

[Turbys_1700]

For a 2K difference in price I would get the higher HP unit. I had the perfect sized tractor and loader for my needs but traded it in on a larger cabbed unit so that I could spin a 10 foot brush hog. Buy what you want. If you can afford the extra coin for the higher HP unit get it. You may have an implement purchase later that would benefit from the higher PTO HP of the unit. I've never heard someone say they had too much HP.

 

[Egon]

How have you determined how much is enough?


Enough is what I can Afford!

 

[mikester]

There are occasional posts here from people who purchased a tractor and feel it is too big. Many of these comments come in the first twenty hours of operation by neophytes. I expect many "grow into" the tractors by 100 hours of operation.

Outnumbering the "too big" posts, perhaps 80:1, are those seeking advice on a new tractor purchase two years or so after initial tractor purchase.

Usual reasons:

Current tractor too unstable (too light) for my applications.

I want more Loader lift capacity.

I need more horsepower.

I wish I had purchased a cab tractor, rather than open station, for winter snow blowing and summer Bush Hogging.


Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling multiple light implements in order to buy heavier, wider implements for a new, heavier tractor requires a lot of time. Depreciation on implements is generally greater than depreciation on a tractor.

Right on all counts.

2K difference for an extra 10 PTO HP is nothing over the long run considering the overall cost of the machine. Around here 60 PTO HP qualifies for reduced sales tax as its considered farm equipment. That alone evens the playing field for me. Id rather have extra HP at the PTO for running implements.

 

[chim]

.............................How have you determined how much is enough?

I have been there several times. There was "enough" to meet my needs. Then there's :"enough" to satisfy my wants. Until I had a chance to hitch a RFM to the latest acquisition, there was a little voice saying "You might have slightly overdone it this time chim". Here's my experience:

Bought a 2WD Cub 154 LoBoy with a 5' MMM in '90 when we built here. It was "enough", and would still mow and plow snow for me had I kept it. It had a front blade and tire chains for Winter. I wanted a 3 point hitch for ease of swapping between a mower and a blade.

Bought a Ford 1210 HST, 4WD around '92 and got 5' RFM and scraper blade. Still have it and it would do everything I really need to do.

Wanted something with a few more horses, so added a B7500 HST with loader and loader in ''02. When doing some loader and mowing on the slopes it seemed like still more horses and heftier loader would be nice.

Sold the B7500 and bought an L3200 in 2012. Built a heated cab, and everything was OK till last year. Thought A/C would be something nice to have.

At the end of '18 I found a very clean L4240HSTC and bought it. It is considerably beefier than any of the previous tractors, and the thought did occur to me that perhaps I went too large this time. Until earlier this week, the only experience I was able to get with it was snow removal. We didn't have much of a winter here, but the 8' blade that was transplanted from a pickup truck did a great job. My concern was how it would do as a lawn mower.

The restoration work on an older Caroni 91" we bought last Fall isn't complete. I borrowed the 6 footer normally used on the L3200 and gave it a try on Monday. Works great! The tires on the L4240 print less than those on the l3200 and the bigger tractor even turns sharper. I measured it and the L4240 scribes a circle 27" smaller than the L3200 measuring from the side of the tire locations at 180 degrees apart on a tight turn.

 

[4570Man]

I sold my tractor and bought a 310. I hope to have the Kubota sitting beside it by next year. But don’t worry, I ‘need’ them.

 

[D2Cat]

The professional salesman will sell the customer what he wants, then be happy to sell him what he needs when he returns!

 

[Fallon]

When deciding on a new tractor purchase we all consider the size of our property, the tasks the tractor will be used for and the attachments it will be running to determine the the specific HP of the engine / PTO.

It also seems like we can get caught up in a value proposition of, "$2k more gets 10 more HP or a bigger / better transmission". But in the end we have to maintain the more expensive and bigger machine and larger usually equates to higher operating and maintenance costs.

I'm considering a 60 HP tractor because it's only 2k more than the exact chassis tractor with a 47 Hp tractor. Overall weight of tractors are only 200 lbs difference. Lifting capacity is the same. I do not need the 13 extra HP nor the extra HP at the PTO. But it seems like the better value is the larger HP.

I heard a salesman once say that most tractor buyers do not buy the tractor they "need" but instead buy the tractor they "want". And that usually means buying over your needs.

How have you determined how much is enough?

I presume you mean a Kubota L4760 & L6060. The only difference is the engine for a few more HP. Possibly slightly bigger tires, but not sure.

Weight is what makes a tractor work. HP just defines how fast it will do it.

There will be 0 difference in those machines pulling a plow, box blade or ground engaging impliment. More HP will only provide more power to the PTO. The most common case is being able to pull a wider mower or go faster in heavy grass.

If as you say you dont need the extra HP for mowing you will find no value & it will burn more fuel.

My L4060 is the same machine. Smaller engine, front axle & tires. But within 300lbs of the bigger machines. I can pull a plow or box blade 85-90% as well as the 60hp machine as I'm traction limited rather than power limited most of the time.

I wish I had more HP for mowing & roading, but that's it. I run an excessively big 8' heavy flail mower on mine too. The rest of the time I'm limited by traction or a rough ride. That's wit a 40hp machine that's probably only a 35hp machine with the lack of oxygen up here in Colorado. That's the same base machine you are looking at with more HP.

 

[Fallon]

Oh, and all of the Grands have the same transmission options. The L6060 isnt a bigger beefier tranny than my L4060.

 

[Richard]

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling multiple light implements in order to buy heavier, wider implements for a new, heavier tractor requires a lot of time.

I think that is an excellent point. (especially the LIGHT implements description)

We live on my wife's family farm. Place started as 500 acres but, there were a lot of woods. I wasn't here then so I don't know the ratio of woods to fields.

They had an International 444 tractor. I don't know the HP.... let's call it 40.

They used a 5' rotary cutter to cut the fields. Yes, a 5' mower. I might add that without measuring, I'm guessing the place is 50/50 fields/woods with a slight advantage on woods.

Years later, TVA came in, took half the property to install a lake (so now we're surrounded on 3 sides by a lake!) and the farm is 250 acres. This is where I entered their lives.

Still had the IH 444 and a 5' cutter..... I've been cutting this place for years and finally said no more. I have too much life to live to spend all summer cutting the place!

Mysteriously, a IH 986/886 (don't know the number) showed up with a 10' HD Rhino mower....and I was back to cutting.

FIL passed away, his son sold the tractor & mower BUT, kept the box blades, spears, angle blades.... everything else that was used on the tractor.

Since I live here, I decided to buy a larger tractor so bought an IH 1066 which is something over 100 HP at the (drawbar? PTO? one of them) It's much larger than the 444.... and now, none of the old implements fit the larger tractor.

I'm not going to replace those implements to hang off the back, I'll stop at the 15' mower.

My agreement with Jeff above is, had they sized the tractor right decades ago, for 500 acres, we might have things that would easily work on today's tractor. Right now, they're becoming scrap metal.