How much is that going to cost?

[/pine]

I don’t see much trouble with valleys. Building 2 parallel slopes with one higher than the other with a short wall in between is problematic in my experience. Skylights and chimneys are problematic. Vent stacks are problematic. There’s other preventative measures you can use but most people don’t and the rubber vent boots don’t last very being unprotected. I despise a metal roof. Any flashing on a metal roof has always been problematic, and vent stacks are even worse. The screw washers only last 7-10 years and require replacement is another problem.

Basically anyplace that required flashing could be problematic...High quality applications employed sweated flashings with no need for any roofing cement (to dry out etc.)...copper or galv. flashing can easily be sweated but has become a lost art with the new materials and techniques...

 

[bdhsfz6]

Back in 1992, I was an engineer for the Bell System (now Verizon). A local community hospital was expanding and needed additional parking space. The Verizon central office, which provides telephone service for half the county, is located next to the hospital complex. I was approached by the hospital about the cost of relocating the building to a nearby piece of property. I worked up the estimate, which was around 3.5 million. The hospital thought that was outrageous and dropped the plan.

This is what it looked like in 1992:

Over the years, the hospital continued to expand and bought up the surrounding houses to make space for additional parking

In 2020, Verizon was again approached about the cost of relocating the central office building. This time, due to the installation of fiber optic equipment, the estimate was just over 40 million! This was half the cost of the hospital expansion and the project was altered.

This is what it looks like today. Part of the hospital addition actually overhangs Verizon property:

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

Since I have retired, I have bought and developed two separate acreages from empty parcels to our finished rural residence and have found that clearly defining the work scope to still be the most important task in staying within my budget and in avoiding surprises, whether I am doing the work myself or hiring the work done.

Good post!!! It didn't take long before I was not amazed anymore with how many people are in the surprised group when you give them the dollar estimate, even on a small project. Thats led me to doing only commercial and industrial work as GC's are more understanding that the cost is what it is.

The work scope was always placed in the customer signed contract. Both protecting me and the customer from he said, she said!! Clearly defining the scope of work details and project schedule was of upmost importance to me.

 

[EddieWalker]

I get a few calls where the person tells me that it will only take "me" an hour to do what they need to have done, but then give me a list of what they want that will take a least a week to get done. I don't even bother with those people. I also avoid all commercial jobs. I did enough to understand why you have to double your rates, and even then, it's not worth the issues that come up from dealing with multiple bosses.

My biggest challenge with clients is scheduling. They want me to start on their project right away, even though they have spent a year or more saving up for it and planning it, once they call me, they are ready to start. Most understand that they have to wait their turn, but some don't get it.

It hasn't happened in quite awhile, but I used to get new people tell me how much they had to spend on the job and seem to think that was enough money to interest me. Most have no idea what materials cost, others think it should be done in a day or two and I should be happy to make a hundred bucks a day.

The most common issue that I run into is in measuring a space and what they expect to fit into a space. It's rare for a client to actually measure it themselves and do the math on what will fit there. A recent bathroom remodel almost went sour because she wanted cabinets on the wall behind her toilet. There wasn't enough space for those cabinets and she figured I could just cut them and make them fit without adding to the cost of the job. Explaining to her that the cost to take apart a cabinet and rebuild it would more then double what she was going to spend on those cabinets finally convinced her to go with open shelves. The shelves look fantastic, and the cabinets would have looked horrible.

Time and Materials is how I base everything. If a potential client questions my bid, asks me to lower it, or tries to tell me to give them a "deal" this time and they will use me again, I just walk away and never deal with them again. For me, it's all about red flags and potential drama.

Most of my clients are repeats, with the new ones being friends or family of previous clients. It's very rare to have a total stranger call me.

 

[ponytug]

On a smaller scale, when buiding our home of 1800sf, and trying to keep costs down, we have a simple single ridge roofline. When we see these huge homes with multiple peaks, ridges, dormers, etc, we can't even guess what those trusses cost, know what we paid for ours. Even the cost to reshingle them down the road. Jon

They are really popular around here, and I don't get it either. Having done lots of roof repairs, I know that every one of those valleys is asking for trouble, and in my experience (I'm doing a repair, after all) is that the original roofer didn't use enough flashing or underlayment to keep the water contained. The valleys are also just asking to be clogged with debris. The photo that @bcp posted could be any one of the newer homes around here.

I don't know if it was low skill, or cheapskate behavior, but I do see those valleys as a risk.

And I agree with @4570Man about perforations in a roof, and the challenges of most metal roofs. Although I don't mind standing seam metal roofs, as the few that I have seen seem not to have the fastener and perforation challenges of other metal roofs, but I'm not an expert by any means.

All the best,

Peter

 

[4570Man]

They are really popular around here, and I don't get it either. Having done lots of roof repairs, I know that every one of those valleys is asking for trouble, and in my experience (I'm doing a repair, after all) is that the original roofer didn't use enough flashing or underlayment to keep the water contained. The valleys are also just asking to be clogged with debris. The photo that @bcp posted could be any one of the newer homes around here.

I don't know if it was low skill, or cheapskate behavior, but I do see those valleys as a risk.

And I agree with @4570Man about perforations in a roof, and the challenges of most metal roofs. Although I don't mind standing seam metal roofs, as the few that I have seen seem not to have the fastener and perforation challenges of other metal roofs, but I'm not an expert by any means.

All the best,

Peter

Standing seem is a different breed from regular roofing metal. Standing seam is a nice product that last well but it’s cost prohibitively expensive.

 

[dodge man]

Eddie the last guy we used for two bathrooms we redid took over a year to get to our house. He is the only person we have had where we were 100% happy with the results and was worth the wait and cost.

 

[civilian]

I don’t see much trouble with valleys. Building 2 parallel slopes with one higher than the other with a short wall in between is problematic in my experience. Skylights and chimneys are problematic. Vent stacks are problematic. There’s other preventative measures you can use but most people don’t and the rubber vent boots don’t last very being unprotected. I despise a metal roof. Any flashing on a metal roof has always been problematic, and vent stacks are even worse. The screw washers only last 7-10 years and require replacement is another problem.

But valleys in lake effect snow county are problems. Penetrations or not. Jon

 

[civilian]

Here's one I saw on Google aerial the other day.

View attachment 781418


Bruce

No way in snow country. Jon

 

[Hay Dude]

I get a few calls where the person tells me that it will only take "me" an hour to do what they need to have done, but then give me a list of what they want that will take a least a week to get done. I don't even bother with those people. I also avoid all commercial jobs. I did enough to understand why you have to double your rates, and even then, it's not worth the issues that come up from dealing with multiple bosses.

My biggest challenge with clients is scheduling. They want me to start on their project right away, even though they have spent a year or more saving up for it and planning it, once they call me, they are ready to start. Most understand that they have to wait their turn, but some don't get it.

It hasn't happened in quite awhile, but I used to get new people tell me how much they had to spend on the job and seem to think that was enough money to interest me. Most have no idea what materials cost, others think it should be done in a day or two and I should be happy to make a hundred bucks a day.

The most common issue that I run into is in measuring a space and what they expect to fit into a space. It's rare for a client to actually measure it themselves and do the math on what will fit there. A recent bathroom remodel almost went sour because she wanted cabinets on the wall behind her toilet. There wasn't enough space for those cabinets and she figured I could just cut them and make them fit without adding to the cost of the job. Explaining to her that the cost to take apart a cabinet and rebuild it would more then double what she was going to spend on those cabinets finally convinced her to go with open shelves. The shelves look fantastic, and the cabinets would have looked horrible.

Time and Materials is how I base everything. If a potential client questions my bid, asks me to lower it, or tries to tell me to give them a "deal" this time and they will use me again, I just walk away and never deal with them again. For me, it's all about red flags and potential drama.

Most of my clients are repeats, with the new ones being friends or family of previous clients. It's very rare to have a total stranger call me.

I‘m really happy to have left most of that behind. I found in 20+ years of dealing with those sorts of people is to try to steer them towards what makes sense, but if they ask twice, give them what they want. Then when it’s done, they only have themselves to blame if it looks or functions badly.
Then they will pay you even more to take it down and put it back up the way it I suggested to them to do it in the first place. lol

I always found that letting the blueprints control the job is the best way to go, that way when there’s an issue, it’s the architect and the customer that have to take up issue and not me.
When asked “would it look good if we………..” I just politely answer “I am your installer. I am not a designer”.

I started in 1990, but never fully recovered from the 2008-2012 recession. I had a framing crew and great subcontractors. When that recession hit hard in 2009, I knew I wanted to hang it up. Still doing 1-2 jobs a year for people who insist I do the work for them, but thats about it.