How far can LEO go?

[chuckd1277]

So let me get this straight...

You are driving down the road, towing a trailer with your truck. There is a car on the trailer. The police pull you over for a routine check. No reason to pull you over. No visible loose tie downs, chains, low tires, bad lighting. They just pull you over to check. You are a private hauler, not a commercial vehicle. They just pull you over to check. And they climb up on your trailer, take your VIN number from your car and run that, too. No reason, other than to check. And some of you have no problem with this?

Well, then, you wouldn't have any problem with them walking up to all the vehicles on your driveway, maybe walking around the side of your house and checking the VIN on the un-plated truck you have back there behind the garage, getting the VIN numbers and running those, either, would you? Heck no. What's wrong with that?

I have two words to say about that....

Papers, please?

For future reference, it comes down to where you have a reasonable expectation of privacy. A car on a trailer on the road is completely different than a car parked in your driveway which is completely different than a car parked behind your garage. You have a greater expectation of privacy the farther from plain view something is.

Please, if nothing else comes of this thread, read the 4th amendment. While I, and I believe most LEOs follow the law, there are some that do not. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS! While I don't have a problem with someone questioning my authority, in fact I appreciate it, I can't stand when people try to defend themselves with miss information. It's right there for all to see, it's YOUR Bill of Rights.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go harass the motoring public...

 

[MossRoad]

And let me say this...

So far in my life, the only time I have been "hassled" by the police, I deserved it with the exception of being stopped in sobriety check points. I did nothing to cause the police to detain me and check my papers. Again, I say "Papers, please."

 

[MossRoad]

For future reference, it comes down to where you have a reasonable expectation of privacy. A car on a trailer on the road is completely different than a car parked in your driveway which is completely different than a car parked behind your garage. You have a greater expectation of privacy the farther from plain view something is.

Please, if nothing else comes of this thread, read the 4th amendment. While I, and I believe most LEOs follow the law, there are some that do not. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS! While I don't have a problem with someone questioning my authority, in fact I appreciate it, I can't stand when people try to defend themselves with miss information. It's right there for all to see, it's YOUR Bill of Rights.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go harass the motoring public...

I see no difference between a car parked on my trailer, a car parked on my driveway, or a car parked on my lawn, or with its nose sticking out from behind the garage that can be seen from the street. Pulling me over for a seat belt violation (which is my fault and I deserve it) should not be cause for you to run my VIN number, the VIN number on my trailer, or the VIN number of a vehicle on my trailer. To me, that is assuming I am stealing something without reason.

I do agree with having my ID checked to make sure I am who I am telling you who I am. And along with that goes checking to see if I am a wanted person. Then, if I am lying or wanted, by all means, check out the rest of my stuff. Just don't do it if there is no reason to.

 

[LD1]

If I was driving down the road with a tarp over my tractor and was pulled over by an officer because he saw a tractor tire sticking out from under the tarp I would not be too happy. What is the difference between them pulling over someone for that VS pulling over every Honda Civic on the road to check the VIN just because they are one of the most stolen cars in America? There is virtually no difference between the two scenarios.

Now, if the officer had a report of a stolen gear drive X brand tractor with 2wd and R4 tires in the immediate area I can see pulling something like that over (although I don't know why anyone would drive a 2wd gear tractor with R4s :laughing: ) just like them stopping someone that fits the description of a robbery suspect.

But really, if my tractor is stolen in Indiana, I see no justification for law enforcement to check every tractor being towed down the highway nationwide.

I think you are missing the point.

Firstly, they dont have to chec the VIN of the car you are driving. Or "every honda civic" for that matter.

If you are driving the car, we are assuming it has plates and registration. THAT is what the officer runs to determine if you are the rightful owner.

And like I said, police take reports EVERYDAY about stolen goods. It would be impossible and impratical for us to expect them to remember ALL the reports that have came in recently.

And if your tractor is tarped, that is a different story. They can rightfully look under the tarp without a warrent or your permission. BUT a tractor/vehichle on an OPEN trailer for EVERYONE to see is a different story. If they have pulled you over for just cause: speeding, no turnsignal, etc, it is well within their rights to check the serial # to see if it is a "hot" item. Towing something down a PUBLIC road is a BIG difference than something setting on your private property. Now you didnt specify wether that parked car on the trailer was on a public road or not, but I am assuming thats what you meant.

You still didnt answer the question:

How would you feel if you had equipment stolen, and on its way to mexico the thieves were stopped for a traffic violation and no one ran the serial #. Just because there may have not been any reports in THAT area recently matching the description???????:confused2:

 

[Redneck in training]

My lawyer told me they don't have right to invade your privacy such as look in the trunk of your car without a warrant. Let say you get caught for speeding and the cop asks to see inside of your trunk. You might tell the cop if he doesn't find anything in the trunk to throw away the ticket. They usually do. If he refuses you don't need to let him look inside.

 

[LD1]

My lawyer told me they don't have right to invade your privacy such as look in the trunk of your car without a warrant. Let say you get caught for speeding and the cop asks to see inside of your trunk. You might tell the cop if he doesn't find anything in the trunk to throw away the ticket. They usually do. If he refuses you don't need to let him look inside.

Thats a good Idea. Have you ever tried that? Does it actually work?

But yu are correct, they dont have the right to invade your privacy without a warrent OR your consent. But a vehichle/tractor on an open trailer, with an exposed serial number, is NOT invading privacy. It they dont actually have to touch, move, or open anything, it is NOT private when on a public road.

Enclosed trailers, tarped trailers, trunks, inside a vehichle(aside from what can be seen looking through a window), puciup bead toolboxes, etc are ALL PRIVATE and they need a warrent/consent to have a peak.

An there have been a few mentions of people being pulled over for sealtbelt violations. I just thought I'd point out that here in OHIO, a seatbelt violation is a SECONDARY offense. That means a LEO cannot pull you over JUST for not wearing a belt. AND it is NOT a moving violation either. But the LEO's (as mentioned before) will come up with another reason to pull you over if they want) and at that time, they can elect to cite you for a not wearing. And many many times they will give you a belt violation in leiu of the moving violation you were stopped for. EVEN if you were indeed wearing it. Its kinda a win win, you dont get a moving violation on your record, and they still get their $$$. Tell me it aint about the $$$$:laughing:

 

[deepNdirt]

You don't seem to know how things work on the border or how much stolen property goes across. It's a lot more than you think. The City of Juarez has 5 large storage lots full of mostly stolen vehicles that have been recovered across the border waiting on repatriation. Over 5,000 vehicles for the city alone.That is in addition to the storage lots that are under jurisdiction of the State of Chihuahua or the Federal Republic of Mexico. And that is just within a few minutes from El Paso and just the stolens that have been recovered. There are more than ten not recovered for every one that is over there.

If you think thieves don't head for the border with stolen property you don't know thieves or the border.

Your stolen tractor could even be put in a shipping container and be gone abroad in a few days.

Then for the local thieves .........

But it sounds like you really don't mind 'specialized cops' checking things out just not traffic cops???

They ALL should be checking. Task Forces can't find it all.

So! I finally I did drag it out just as i expecting.... if this is the case It sounds like a much easier way to find stolen cars,trucks,and equipment, simply wait for them to arrive at these lots or shipping yards, recover and return the items to their rightful owners put the owner of these places in jail, Problem solved then they can stop hassling the legal citizens, Oh but I'm sure its much much more difficult then this to track down the places thief's take the stuff to,.......
some of you keep referring to me as though I never have had anything stolen, but the fact is I have had been victim, I'm in construction and have had tools stole, and of course never recovered, except the one time when working out of a job site and went to lunch one day only to return and have all of our hand tools and tool belts stolen, I asked around the community if anyone had seen anything? and a couple of folks was kind enough to inform me they had see a couple of 10-12 year old boys pulling a wagon and pointed in the direction they were heading, I ask a couple other neighborhood children until finally found that he knew about a tree house being built in the woods,
I tracked down and found my tools, and went to confront the parents, They were in disbelieve that their little boys would have done such a thing.
I'm sure tracking down stolen equipment is more difficult then was for me finding my tools, the moral to this story is, I didn't go into every homeowners garage asking to see what tools they have in the attempt to find my tools and I didn't wait for LEO to arrive to write out a report..... been there done that before I never did recover those tools.

Lets level the field just a bit... first of all have a full understanding of the laws being 53 years of age I've learned a thing or 2, I've also had 3 uncles that were LEO 2 of which were captains and one a Chief, they were much older than I and if they were still living I could most likely be enlightened and have better understanding of the way LEO works, although I'm sure things have change since their serving from back in the 60's & 70's

 

[LD1]

So! I finally I did drag it out just as i expecting.... if this is the case It sounds like a much easier way to find stolen cars,trucks,and equipment, simply wait for them to arrive at these lots or shipping yards, recover and return the items to their rightful owners put the owner of these places in jail, Problem solved then they can stop hassling the legal citizens, Oh but I'm sure its much much more difficult then this to track down the places thief's take the stuff to,.......
some of you keep referring to me as though I never have had anything stolen, but the fact is I have had been victim, I'm in construction and have had tools stole, and of course never recovered, except the one time when working out of a job site and went to lunch one day only to return and have all of our hand tools and tool belts stolen, I asked around the community if anyone had seen anything? and a couple of folks was kind enough to inform me they had see a couple of 10-12 year old boys pulling a wagon and pointed in the direction they were heading, I ask a couple other neighborhood children until finally found that he knew about a tree house being built in the woods,
I tracked down and found my tools, and went to confront the parents, They were in disbelieve that their little boys would have done such a thing.
I'm sure tracking down stolen equipment is more difficult then was for me finding my tools, the moral to this story is, I didn't go into ever homeowners garage asking to see what tools they have in the attempt to find my tools and I didn't wait for LEO to arrive to right out a report..... been there done that before I never did recover those tools.

Lets level the field just a bit... first of all have a full understanding of the laws being 53 years of age I've learned a thing or 2, I've also had 3 uncles that were LEO 2 of which were captains and one a Chief, they were much older than I and if they were still living I could most likely be enlightened and have better understanding of the way LEO works, although I'm sure things have change since their serving from back in the 60's & 70's

I understand that you didnt go into everyones garages searching for tools. And I am not suggesting that, with ANYHTING.

But what is is Plain sight.....

If you were just crusing the neighborhood, and just happened to see boys pulling a wagon load of tools that "looked" like yours, would you not have stopped them to take a better look????

Private is private. But in plain sight and on a public road, I feel a LEO has every right to run #'s. I am not suggesting that they search EVERYONE or even pull over EVERY trailer towing equipment. But I still dont see what is wrong with checking #'s on equipment/vehichles if they have someone pulled over anyway and everything is in plain view of anyone willing to look.

 

[deepNdirt]

I understand that you didnt go into everyones garages searching for tools. And I am not suggesting that, with ANYHTING.

But what is is Plain sight.....

If you were just crusing the neighborhood, and just happened to see boys pulling a wagon load of tools that "looked" like yours, would you not have stopped them to take a better look????

absolutely would, if my tools were in plain site in the wagon and could be Id clearly to be mine, although if the LEO had become involved I'm sure I would have had to provide serial numbers to prove they were mine,

don't get me wrong I do see your point and understand it clearly,

But there used to be an old saying .... "Your Barking up the wrong tree" this applies to the LEO who pull people over only to check the serial numbers of something they most likely know is not stolen,
Be sure the tree you're barking up actually has something to bark at,
example: if LEO really thought He was pulling over someone that had stolen equipment would you walk right up to their car and ask to run the serial numbers? what would you think an actual theft response would be? what would happen in the event it was an actual stolen item?
better yet, would a theft knowing he had stolen items stop for you in the first place?
LEO have to take a big risk pulling over legal citizens to run serial numbers, But even a larger risk to run the numbers on something that is actually stolen,
someone mention that a lot of info can be obtained through the Tag numbers on the plates, why bother to pull over an elderly 70 year old man that has no history of bad driving record and is a local resident of 50 years and you know he's paid in his fare share, Sure the old man probably wouldn't care one way or the other that you pulled him over, and would probably enjoy shooting the breeze with you, but my point is ... Leo has to surely know he would be barking up the wrong tree,
and this PEOPLE is what I am hearing on my scanner, allot of Barking up the wrong tree.......

There is something taken place in our Nation, Americans are being looked at as being guilty before being proved Innocent, This is not that way I remember it being written,

 

[EE_Bota]

I likely will not let them search without a warrant. The reason: I hear way to often to suit me: "I have nothing to hide." Well, neither do I, but I have something to protect...my rights. I don't want it to ever get to the point that requesting due process implies guilt. So, unless the officer makes me believe time is of the essence, etc, like mayby they are looking for an abducted child, I will request a warrant.