patrickg
Veteran Member
Kodiak, I do most of my preliminary design work in bed while waiting to fall asleep but some of this was done as I wrote it, a synthesis of background experience. I don't have a problem with the aesthetics of concrete pilings with algae at the water line. I could add some concrete color to the mix and get just about any color I want, permanent (+/-) the vagaries of biologics and evaporation in the splash zone.
Actually I envisioned the bottom of the teahouse/gazebo not too far above the high water line in the pond and as the columns will be under the structure in the shadows they won't be too visible unless illuminated (not likely). Most of my ponds stay pretty full all year. A couple years back we had a record drought and I didn't have any fish kill in any of the 8 ponds. Of course, If your aesthetic vision required a higher base and your columns were to be more exposed AND you wanted really clean looking columns, leaving the plastic would work fine. Pipe in the larger sizes does tend to get expensive and 10-12 inches or larger (emphasis on larger) would make me feel more secure regarding live loads (transverse). I just happened to think of pipe. No reason why you couldn't whip up a rectangular form for a column or hexagonal or octagonal out of 1x lumber (I'd have to check some numbers, might need 2x lumber) with a bevel cut to make a good fit and external bolt on bracing to assemble/dissasemble the form. Since I am thinking of a hexagonal or octagonal perimenter for the tearoom/gazebo (with extended/stretched center section), duplicating that shape in the support columns if they can be seen would be a nice touch. I will opt for bigger columns than are strictly needed for support to handle live side loads because I really don't want diagonal bracing (just seems like it would be ugly). Before I start mixing concrete I will do considerable analysis regarding side loads as we may want to have a 2nd floor observation deck and that extra height/leverage might require me to opt for even sturdier columns. Hopefully I can use a larger cross section under water where it won't show and get by with a smaller cross section above the water. However the numbers fall out it will probably be over built, why change practice for this project.
I'm sorry but I am having trouble visualizing adding rebar after pourning any concrete and if you shove the vertical form down too far you weaken the connection of the vertical to the horizontal and risk not having good coverage on your rebar. I want a monolythic pour with a horizontal N-S/E-W rebar mat connected to the vertical rebar by a radial patern of 90 degree bent rebar pieces a minimum of 2ftx2ft. I expect to securely wire this together on shore and then place it. If I wasn't afraid of cold joints (I hate 'em) I would pour the horizontal on shore and drag/float it out and lower it into position. I'm sure that over time, thinking about this I can refine the approach.
There must be a zillion ways to do this project and hundreds of right ways. I hope to find one of the "good enough" ways. I have never had a wooden deck last worth beans. Never had one of all pressure treat either. Given the cost of pressure treat and considering all that poison and nearly fainting when I saw the cost of using the plastic "imitation" wood decking, I'm going to take a close look at concrete for the decking/floor of the tearoom/gazebo. I can form it such that I end up with cast concrete "floor joists" not unlike those created in using "Light Deck" to pour a concrete ceiling. Might use masonry products for some of the construction as well as I really don't want to create a maint. nightmare.
But first I have a house to design and build. Nailed down the site, gotta do some solar calcs and thinking for orientation decision. Pretty much decided on ICF shell for walkout basement and first floor with conventional framing for the second floor as the second floor will have considerable less sq ft than basement or ground floor and will be mostly contained within the steep pitched gable roof except for dormers and turret (and observation deck and observatory... one can dream till cost reality sets in) This will be a Victorian flavored farmhouse with some gingerbread (found a source for molded plastic never needs painting gingerbread) dormers, turret(s) and wraparound porches with separate garage-shop-wife's project room connected by an extended breezeway/sunroom. Tearoom/gazebo in the middle of the pond (central feature/main view from house) is to mirror general architecture of house but in miniature. Railings on dock will mimic railings of the wrap around covered porches.
Patric
Actually I envisioned the bottom of the teahouse/gazebo not too far above the high water line in the pond and as the columns will be under the structure in the shadows they won't be too visible unless illuminated (not likely). Most of my ponds stay pretty full all year. A couple years back we had a record drought and I didn't have any fish kill in any of the 8 ponds. Of course, If your aesthetic vision required a higher base and your columns were to be more exposed AND you wanted really clean looking columns, leaving the plastic would work fine. Pipe in the larger sizes does tend to get expensive and 10-12 inches or larger (emphasis on larger) would make me feel more secure regarding live loads (transverse). I just happened to think of pipe. No reason why you couldn't whip up a rectangular form for a column or hexagonal or octagonal out of 1x lumber (I'd have to check some numbers, might need 2x lumber) with a bevel cut to make a good fit and external bolt on bracing to assemble/dissasemble the form. Since I am thinking of a hexagonal or octagonal perimenter for the tearoom/gazebo (with extended/stretched center section), duplicating that shape in the support columns if they can be seen would be a nice touch. I will opt for bigger columns than are strictly needed for support to handle live side loads because I really don't want diagonal bracing (just seems like it would be ugly). Before I start mixing concrete I will do considerable analysis regarding side loads as we may want to have a 2nd floor observation deck and that extra height/leverage might require me to opt for even sturdier columns. Hopefully I can use a larger cross section under water where it won't show and get by with a smaller cross section above the water. However the numbers fall out it will probably be over built, why change practice for this project.
I'm sorry but I am having trouble visualizing adding rebar after pourning any concrete and if you shove the vertical form down too far you weaken the connection of the vertical to the horizontal and risk not having good coverage on your rebar. I want a monolythic pour with a horizontal N-S/E-W rebar mat connected to the vertical rebar by a radial patern of 90 degree bent rebar pieces a minimum of 2ftx2ft. I expect to securely wire this together on shore and then place it. If I wasn't afraid of cold joints (I hate 'em) I would pour the horizontal on shore and drag/float it out and lower it into position. I'm sure that over time, thinking about this I can refine the approach.
There must be a zillion ways to do this project and hundreds of right ways. I hope to find one of the "good enough" ways. I have never had a wooden deck last worth beans. Never had one of all pressure treat either. Given the cost of pressure treat and considering all that poison and nearly fainting when I saw the cost of using the plastic "imitation" wood decking, I'm going to take a close look at concrete for the decking/floor of the tearoom/gazebo. I can form it such that I end up with cast concrete "floor joists" not unlike those created in using "Light Deck" to pour a concrete ceiling. Might use masonry products for some of the construction as well as I really don't want to create a maint. nightmare.
But first I have a house to design and build. Nailed down the site, gotta do some solar calcs and thinking for orientation decision. Pretty much decided on ICF shell for walkout basement and first floor with conventional framing for the second floor as the second floor will have considerable less sq ft than basement or ground floor and will be mostly contained within the steep pitched gable roof except for dormers and turret (and observation deck and observatory... one can dream till cost reality sets in) This will be a Victorian flavored farmhouse with some gingerbread (found a source for molded plastic never needs painting gingerbread) dormers, turret(s) and wraparound porches with separate garage-shop-wife's project room connected by an extended breezeway/sunroom. Tearoom/gazebo in the middle of the pond (central feature/main view from house) is to mirror general architecture of house but in miniature. Railings on dock will mimic railings of the wrap around covered porches.
Patric
