How are your investments doing?

[CloverKnollFarms]

I have not nor never will get to that level of income.

They doubled our pay my last few years at work... This farm kid was living a dream

 

[MossRoad]

They doubled our pay my last few years at work... This farm kid was living a dream

The last time I was around that dream, I'd just opened the fuel door under a 727 wing, the fuel cap popped off, and jet fuel poured into my eyes. I wondered off holding my eyes reaching for help. No one could hear me screaming above the noise of the APU. When I finally got one eye open, I was 100' off the starboard wing, so I turned around and staggered back until I could find someone to take me to the hospital.

(eyes are find, jet fuel stinks)

 

[Torvy]

An issue with sales tax is that low income earners have to spend a greater percentage of their income on necessities than high income earners. A flat tax with no min or max caps means everyone is in for the same percentage of their income. Sales tax, property tax, excise tax could all be eliminated if everyone paid the same percentage. Same thing with FICA cap. Remove it and social security would be funded.

Sigh. The greater percentage thing is a red herring. Those same people get public funds that more than offset anything they would pay.

The flat tax still does nothing to tax those who are paid illegally, or who are freeriders. The US is one of only a handful of countries without a sales tax nationally. We get almost nothing from tourists or resident aliens (except those who are working). Something like 12% of GDP happens in the underground economy.

Easy fix for socsec is to put all of it into IRA/401k style accounts. No early withdrawal and only a few very broad plans available. I did the math. Even someone who only made the Fed minimum would be set. That also gets Congress' hand out of people's retirement...it is no longer a budget item and stops being a wedge to drive between generations.

 

[MossRoad]

Sigh. The greater percentage thing is a red herring. Those same people get public funds that more than offset anything they would pay.

...

This is the mantra of folks that don't want to pay the same percentage of taxes as poor people with no cap. It's been that way since I was a kid.

Similar to the argument about why should my tax dollars go toward public education when I don't have any children.

 

[grsthegreat]

This is the mantra of folks that don't want to pay the same percentage of taxes as poor people with no cap. It's been that way since I was a kid.

Similar to the argument about why should my tax dollars go toward public education when I don't have any children.

Dont get me started on school taxes. I believe those with more kids should pay more than those with no kids. Ill never believe differently.

 

[NorTracNY]

Dont get me started on school taxes. I believe those with more kids should pay more than those with no kids. Ill never believe differently.

I hear you, even as one who has kids, but I don't have an easy solution. It's in the countries best interest to have an educated public. We can ignore if what we have is actually education. The cost of schooling has been mandated to be ridiculously high. IF those with kids that were actually going to school were the ones paying, most would not be able to afford to send them. In NYS, you'd be looking at over $20K/yr/child. That would quickly result in public schools collapsing inside of a year.

I'd rather focus on correcting the schools so the cost was appropriate. There are way too many mandates. I actually had to get a teaching license to volunteer to support a sports program! I believe that there is too great of a spread in the ability of teachers, 10% should be fired and over 10% should be given a raise. Most administration should be eliminated. The administration that is left should support teachers and teach kids the foreign concept of consequences.

 

[MossRoad]

Dont get me started on school taxes. I believe those with more kids should pay more than those with no kids. Ill never believe differently.

I believe people should know what it's going to cost to raise a bunch of kids well before they hop into the back seat of a car..... but that'll never happen.

I'd also rather have educated kids with a chance for success than angry, uneducated, hungry kids running around turning into angry, uneducated, hungry adults.

One thing that seems to get lost often in these types of conversations is the kids didn't ask to be put in those situations. We, as a society, shouldn't punish them for the mistakes/poor choices of their parents.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Anyone who doesn't believe we live in a socialist system needs to understand IRMAA.
Regardless of what one pays into social security what you recieve is based upon one's AGI. So the higher the AGI, the less you receive based on IRMAA deduction.
My wife & I worked starting at age 15. We both started SS at 62 based on statistics from several consultants (the 'turn over' age is about 83, meaning if you're sure you'll live past 84, you should take SS later which doesn't account for reinvesting SS payments.
No way could we survive on our SS it's such a pittance.
Beyond that, who purchases more...the wealthy or the poor?
Very appropriate song 56 years ago:

 

[Oaktree]

Dont get me started on school taxes. I believe those with more kids should pay more than those with no kids. Ill never believe differently.

I don't have any kids (that I know of), but I don't have a problem with paying my share of education costs. Every dollar of my share that I don't pay gets put onto someone else. Raising a child is expensive, why add to parents' burden more than you have to. The only thing that kind of frosts me is the attitude many school boards have is "you don't have any kids in school, your opinion on what we do doesnt' matter". Bull. Almost 70% of my property taxes go towards schools, yeah it DOES matter.

Sales taxes are the broadest, most fair option to replace other means of taxation. Easy to implement. Hard to avoid. Captures taxes from people who currently avoid any taxation...people who earn illegally, people who are resident aliens, visitors, etc. All of the negatives associated with sales taxes can easily be ameliorated by public policy that helps the truly poor.

Maybe it's due to having lived most of my life in a state that has no sales tax, but I HATE!! sales taxes. It's relatively nickel and dime per transaction, but it adds up over the course of the year. I'd rather see on large bill (whether income or property) which lets me clearly see just how much the government is picking from my pocket. They also make it easy for the powers that be to sneak in an increase without many noticing it.
Now maybe you keep a spreadsheet and log the sales tax every time you buy something, but most people don't. I like being able to buy something and know the stickered price is what I'll pay.
I've noticed a lot of states with relatively low property taxes have sales taxes that approach or even surpass 10%. That's a LOT of money!! Every few years someone in the state legislature floats the idea of implementing one for "property tax relief". I call BS on that...they might go down a little for a while, but you know they're gonna creep right back up, and we'll just be paying in more.
</rant>

 

[MossRoad]

I don't have any kids (that I know of), but I don't have a problem with paying my share of education costs. Every dollar of my share that I don't pay gets put onto someone else. Raising a child is expensive, why add to parents' burden more than you have to. The only thing that kind of frosts me is the attitude many school boards have is "you don't have any kids in school, your opinion on what we do doesnt' matter". Bull. Almost 70% of my property taxes go towards schools, yeah it DOES matter.



.....

Many years ago someone I knew was running for the local school board. We got to talking and I mentioned I really didn't have any dog in that fight, as our kids don't go to public schools. His reply?

"Yes, but your tax dollars do."

He had a very good point and from that point on I paid more attention to how the local public schools are run.

 

[ultrarunner]

But many low income pay little to no taxes in general…

A higher sales tax with no tax on food would cover that essential.

There are so many tax proposals floating around it’s scary.

One is a tax on every package delivered as delivered often means money leaving the community.

Another is the junk food tax and another a fee for using public on street parking by making it permit only.

 

[ultrarunner]

I believe people should know what it's going to cost to raise a bunch of kids well before they hop into the back seat of a car..... but that'll never happen.

I'd also rather have educated kids with a chance for success than angry, uneducated, hungry kids running around turning into angry, uneducated, hungry adults.

One thing that seems to get lost often in these types of conversations is the kids didn't ask to be put in those situations. We, as a society, shouldn't punish them for the mistakes/poor choices of their parents.

Some do think about consequences and might even be considered selfish when it comes to education tax dollars.

Also, curriculum my encourage ill will and resentment…

Several lifelong friends opted to homeschool and a few had teaching credentials and had experienced public school as teachers and opted out and their kids all over achievers…

Of course public schools are mandated to accept all comers… and I give credit for that especially when large percentages have no or little English.

 

[MossRoad]

But many low income pay little to no taxes in general…

A higher sales tax with no tax on food would cover that essential.

There are so many tax proposals floating around it’s scary.

One is a tax on every package delivered as delivered often means money leaving the community.

Another is the junk food tax and another a fee for using public on street parking by making it permit only.

No one in Indiana pays sales tax on food, rich or poor.

I can't think of any household item, clothing, bedding, toilet paper, toiletries, furniture, anything that does not get sales taxed. Cars, tires, oil, lightbulb, you name it, they are all taxed.

 

[zzvyb6]

Except that my tax bracket has been jumped TWICE and is way over what I was making in my good engineering job. So there's been no 'savings' for me at all.

I would have used it back then to buy some tractors etc. A newer 4020 with a loader and a 4430 cab, HVAC, a 336 baler, 1479 self propelled, just to start with. They would have kept their value, too.
Also I could then wait a few years, apply for SNAP, a Bridge card, get a free phone, and SSI relief. Take Spanish lessons, too. Set for life.

 

[ultrarunner]

Food Shelter Clothing are defined as necessities but transportation, cable tv, cell phones, etc. would not seem to be yet all are offered at large discounts to being less than free based on income.

I have had renter paid to stay in apartments I managed… they were under housed after the birth of twins and 100% of the rent government paid plus they got a check each month for being in a 2 bedroom instead of a 3 bedroom.

A wise person told me the best investment is investing in your mind and body…

Another said into his 90’s… your health is your wealth and was driving and caring for his wife until the last 3 weeks of his life passing at 96… wife passed 2 years later at 95.

He was big on health and being debt free living on a modest pension and social security…

 

[grsthegreat]

idaho has sales tax on food, which i think is way wrong

 

[Torvy]

idaho has sales tax on food, which i think is way wrong

I don't. Why? Any time you add exceptions in taxation, you get cheating and manipulation. No tax on food sounds great. Who decides what is food? Is a coke food? How about candy? Why should taxpayers subsidize foods that aren't nutritious? What about 'luxury' foods like caviar? Vegans might want to say meat should be taxed. Certain religious types might think only pork should be taxed. Maybe we only tax imported foods....needless complexity.

The solution to low income people paying sales taxes is making staples available at social services. Food and clothing. Just the basics.

 

[grsthegreat]

I don't. Why? Any time you add exceptions in taxation, you get cheating and manipulation. No tax on food sounds great. Who decides what is food? Is a coke food? How about candy? Why should taxpayers subsidize foods that aren't nutritious? What about 'luxury' foods like caviar? Vegans might want to say meat should be taxed. Certain religious types might think only pork should be taxed. Maybe we only tax imported foods....needless complexity.

The solution to low income people paying sales taxes is making staples available at social services. Food and clothing. Just the basics.

Hay if you eliminate chocolate from my diet….. that would eliminate half my food…… just saying

 

[Torvy]

Hay if you eliminate chocolate from my diet….. that would eliminate half my food…… just saying

You can still eat it, you just have to pay tax on it like everyone else.

 

[goeduck]

I have two main accounts on the investment side, Vanguard and Fidelity. I am moving Fidelity to Vanguard this month. Results have been almost the same since 2022 and this eliminates fees on both, plus I like the Vanguard advisor much better.