Hino N209

   / Hino N209 #1  

htiek126

Silver Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Messages
236
Location
Southern Maryland
Tractor
Iseki TA270F, Yanmar YM1510D, Mitsubishi MT2201D
I just installed a FEL and backhoe on my N209. The hydraulic fluid seems to be running very hot. The backhoe and FEL valves are very hot to the touch. You can hold you finger on them for a few seconds at most. How hot is normal? Is this generally a valve issue or some other restriction in the line? I used 3/8" hydraulic hoses. The three point hitch now raises slowly with no load. I suspect maybe one of the electric solenoid three point hitch valve seals is now leaking after being aggravated by the heat. I am on the right track or could it be something else?
 
   / Hino N209 #2  
It will run very hot. Pressure causes heat. Your lift is slow because now you are diverting part of the fluid to the front loader.

Eugene
 
   / Hino N209 #3  
If you can hold your finger on a fitting, the temperature will be less than 130 degrees Farenhiet. Over that, and you'll snatch your had away. When operating in a thermal generation station they told us all kinds of good stuff, like use the back of your hand if there is any possibility of stray electricity, then when your muscles contract, your hand will come away automagically. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
   / Hino N209 #4  
As long as you’re not activating the loader at the same time the 3 point should lift at the same speed it always did. If it is plumbed in series correctly then you have a partially plugged hose or line. If you had hoses made they could have crimped the end to far ( I would pull off ones that look like they are smashing the hose to much and look down it to see if it was crimped smaller than the ID of the hose. Any chance you’re plumbed in the wrong direction on your loader or backhoe valve. Give me a detailed description of the system from A-to-Z on how you plumbed it and the valves you used and we can figure it out quick.
 
   / Hino N209
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Clarification - The FEL, backhoe, and three point lift work great with the one exception. The three point hitch slowly raises on its' own when not loaded. I am not activating the valve, and I can also push the top limit switch to break the electric circuit to the valve, and it still raises.

The system:
I tapped into the tractor hydraulics at the hydraulic access block (under left driver's foot). I simply ran 3/8" hose from the pump/pressure side of the block to the FEL valve (P), from the FEL valve (T) to the backhoe valve pressure line, and then from the backhoe return line to the hydraulic access block where it travels to the three point hitch valves.

The heat:
I suspect some of the heat issue may be too much flow for the Koyker B60 backhoe. I believe the manual says the flow should not exceed 4GPM, and it looks like the backhoe cylinder hoses are 1/4". I have not idea of the flow rate for the N209, but I am very happy witht he response times on the Koyker 155 FEL. I like running the backhoe fast, but I suspect that I am running it a little to fast because it is more jerky then my past experience with a Bradco backhoe on a JD870. Of course, some of that is operator error....
 
   / Hino N209 #6  
I have to assume that the 3 point problem started when you plumbed for the loader and was not occurring before? Doesn’t really matter either way you have a spool sticking in your 3 point valve. I run the KB60 on tractors with 8 to 12 GPM with no noticeable heat. I would say that the partial flow that is constantly being diverted through your 3 point spool is causing the heat. No doubt in my mind. Time to tear it apart and get her fixed. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Hino N209 #7  
I was just kicking myself; it is important to know if this happened before or after you installed the loader. If it happened after I would bet lunch that you have a piece of Teflon in the spool area or debris...... the orifices for the hydraulic amplification are extremely small and I spend a fair portion of my life digging out Teflon tape and small pieces of muck......
 
   / Hino N209
  • Thread Starter
#8  
The problem started after the first day of use the FEL. I suspect you are right about debris. I noticed the problem that night when I removed the backhoe.

I blew the lines and fittings out with compressed air before installing. However, a few fittings required some trial and error refitting and there were some key moments that I was unable to control debris falling into two vertical sections of hoses. There is no teflon tape involved, but I did use thread lock hydraulic sealer and some of the fittings already had some other pipe sealing compound.

It sounds like it is time to tear the valve apart and clean...

Are there any words of caution or wisdom about tearing a valve apart to clean? Or do I just need to be methodical with a clean bench top?
 
   / Hino N209 #9  
Is it possible that your plumbing is not unloading the pump when all of the valves are in their "neutral" position? I'm a newbie to tractor hydraulics, but have a fair amount of experience with industrial hydraulic systems. How long does it take to heat up, and can you hear the motor load slightly when any one of your attachments are actuated (you should hear this)? If things are heating up quite quickly (say 10 minues) it almost sounds like the pump is up to pressure and popping off the relief valve. All that power that goes into the pump to drive fluid goes directly into heat when the hydraulic cylinders are not actuated.

Again, newbie speaking here, but my Shibaura appears to have both the FEL valve and the 3-pt valve with a "tandem center" mode, where the pressure line dumps to tank with nothing operating. On mine, there is a (manual) ball valve supplying the FEL, it has to be closed to maintain pressure in the system and operate the 3-pt. Conversly, when the 3-pt is in the center position (solenoid unactuated) there is no pressure to operate the FEL, the 3-point sol must be energized "up". With both of these valves closed (3-pt up) the motor loads and you can hear oil flow over the relief valve. It heats up in about 10 minutes then.

I have no idea if my setup is typical or if this relates at all to what you are seeing, but if you are heating up that quickly, somewhere you are probably bleeding from the pressure side of the hydro system to tank. A stuck valve such as Buck describes would do exactly the same thing.

A question to you hydraulic experts here-what style of pump do tractors typically use, a vane or piston? Are these typically a "pressure compensating" (aka variable displacement) style where the displacement of the pump goes to zero when there is no flow?

Hope this helps.

Bri

Edit: I didn't read your last post carefully enough-that fact that your 3-point is drifting up almost certainly means the valve isn't returning to center properly, stuck between up and "hold". Would explain both the 3-pt travel and heat. Sounds like Buck is spot on again-should have known /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif. Does the 3-pt drop normally? If so, you may be able to cycle the valve a few times and dislodge whatever is sticking things, fluid flow should flush it out then.

As to dismembering a solenoid valve-as you said, have a clean bench, note which o-rings go where (there may be several where the valve mounts, or one gasket) and don't force things. If the spool seems to stick in the body, work it out slowly and carefully. When you go to re-assemble, put a bit of oil on any o-rings, work carefully so not to cut them. If there are some between the valve and base you might want to "tack" them in place with some heavy grease, its pretty easy to shift and cut one when putting the valve on.

If worse comes to worse, are these valves a "industry standard" mounting?

Good luck.
 
   / Hino N209
  • Thread Starter
#10  
It does heat up quickly, 10 minutes might be about right.

I believe these tractors have gear pumps.

The 3pt goes up and down properly. It is the off position that it just slowly rises on its own. I have cycled it quite a few times to see if it would fix iitself. No such luck yet.

I doubt these are industry standard valves.
 

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