Help me buy a compact tractor - information overload...

ViperDriver · Jul 29, 2018

Information overload. Need a tractor - likely buying new. Below are our use cases, preferences, and limitations along with some data about our property - I am like this looking at all the options: :shocked::shocked::shocked: and figured you could help narrow it down.

Background -
We have 15 acres - mostly wooded and will remain that way. Currently building long term / retirement home with large workshop. Longer term use will be field / septic area maintenance and some light grading - but early use may be "heavier duty" as we take on more tasks ourselves - i.e. drainage, etc.

Use cases:

Mowing septic field / pasture - approx 1.5 to 2 acres - not looking for "finely groomed" - right now - it's $1100 to pay someone to do this
Mowing side of road / taking back some brushy areas
Moving dirt / grading
leveling and filling backyard area, prepping for artificial turf (north side / no sun / dogs will kill grass)
backfilling foundation area / over plumbing and buried electrical
perhaps some grooming of long road before paving (1300'), but will hire out the heavy stuff
digging / trenching for drainage for hardscapes - this is where we can save the most $$$
will NOT do fine / general mowing up at the house - the area inside the retaining wall is small / contained / lots of obstacles - so that's push mower and SMALL.

Preferences:

Want to buy new - we take really good care of things, and due to financing, want to spread out payments (building house - keeping my cash is king); also, need an installment loan to bump credit score since all we have is a mortgage
Don't want something that is underpowered or finicky / hard to work on
Want easy of use / quick disconnects
While money is not "no object" - if the right answer is $3K more then it's the right answer. Budget is about $25K-$28K
Expect to get attachments at initial purchase - bush hog, FEL, backhoe and MAYBE a box spreader

Limitations

In order to get to back yard, the side areas are tight at 72" - so we'd like to stay under 60" width for the tractor - including bucket - 60" absolute TOP
In NC so not interested in snow moving equipment
Personal vehicle buying mantra "you can never have too much torque"
Don't need a cab
Looking for hydrostatic trans - can do the gears - but not preferred

Currently looking at Kubota and something like a B3350 - but then.... saw Kioti, John Deere, and others - and that led to the information overload.

Anything we should take into consideration? Missing any brands? the width limitation is really driving the decision here - but that also has the benefit (?) of not letting us go too crazy - because we, uh, kinda tend to do that.

Warnings? Ideas? Think the B3350 is the best thing since sliced bread?

Thanks in advance to experts who have WAY more experience in this than we do.

jeff9366 · Jul 29, 2018

The most efficient way to shop for tractors is to list your tasks first, then determine bare tractor weight needed to safely accomplish your tasks. The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Heavier tractor chassis weight is more important for most tractor operations than increased tractor horsepower. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used.

Within subcompact and compact tractor categories, bare tractor weight must increase 50% before you notice a significant tractor capability increase. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.

Most tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight operate in residential or hobby farm applications on one to ten flat acres. Subcompact and compact tractors under 3,000 pounds will enter a residential garage with typical 84" door height.

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling multiple light implements in order to buy heavier, wider implements for a heavier tractor requires a lot of time. Depreciation on implements is generally greater than depreciation on a tractor.

Tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are generally offered in a utilitarian configuration and a deluxe configuration. Deluxe kit enhances productivity and operating comfort ~~~ but you must pay. Most tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are too tall to fit through an 84" height garage door, even with ROPS folded.

Heavier tractors are built on larger frames with larger wheels/tires. Heavier tractors with large diameter tires have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Larger wheels and tires increase ground clearance, enabling a heavier tractor to bridge holes, ruts and downed tree limbs with less bucking and disturbance when passing over rough pasture and woodland.

Safe hillside operation demands more tractor weight than level land operation. Heavier tractors have adjustable rear wheel spreads; wide rear wheel spreads hugely improve tractor stability. Four wheel drive is essential on hillsides. Four wheel drive supplies increased traction. When descending slopes 4-WD augments rear brakes as tractor weight shifts forward, decreasing rear tire grip.

Tractors optimized for hill work have liquid installed in the rear tires rather than air. "Loaded" tires are filled 50% to 75% with liquid, which lowers the tractor's center-of-gravity, increasing rollover resistance. "Loading" two compact tractor rear tires will increase tractor weight 300 pounds to 800 pounds over weight of identical two tires inflated with air.

A quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important for tractor neophytes. Almost every new tractor is delivered with a glitch or two requiring correction. My kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment. Dealer proximity is less important to those experienced with tractors and qualified to perform their own maintenance.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.

jeff9366 · Jul 29, 2018

B3350/B3350SU is 1,896 pounds bare tractor, minimum width 54" with R1 tires. DELUXE KIT.
https://www.kubotausa.com/docs/default-source/brochure-sheets/b50rops.pdf?sfvrsn=a30d900_6

L2501 is 2,623 pounds bare tractor, minimum width 55" with R1 tires.
((No Tier IV emission controls on sub-25 horsepower tractors.))
https://www.kubotausa.com/docs/default-source/brochure-sheets/l2501.pdf?sfvrsn=34e9b1d_8

Every tractor brand includes a model in the 2,600 pound to 2,900 pound (bare tractor) range with 100 cubic inch/24 horsepower engine ample for your tasks. Tractors under 25-horsepower are exempt from the stringent, Tier IV emission controls which abruptly increase a tractor's cost about $2,000 above the 25-horsepower demarcation.

VIDEO: Kubota B-Series vs Standard L1 Series - YouTube

Consider both B3350 models against the L2501.

jeff9366 · Jul 29, 2018

ViperDriver

Background -
We have 15 acres - mostly wooded and will remain that way. Mowing septic field / pasture - approx 1.5 to 2 acres - not looking for "finely groomed" - right now

How many "open" acres do you have? What is your plan for the "open" acres?

Use cases:

Mowing septic field / pasture - approx 1.5 to 2 acres - not looking for "finely groomed" - right now - it's $1100 to pay someone to do this.

Preferences:

Want to buy new - we take really good care of things, and due to financing, want to spread out payments (building house - keeping my cash is king); also, need an installment loan to bump credit score since all we have is a mortgage
Want easy of use / quick disconnects = B3350
While money is not "no object" - if the right answer is $3K more then it's the right answer. Budget is about $25K-$28K
Expect to get attachments at initial purchase - bush hog, FEL, backhoe and MAYBE a box spreader
Backhoe will be around $7,000 of purchase price. Do you really need one? Backhoe must be removed in order to access the Three Point Hitch.
VIDEO: tractor middle buster - YouTube

You need to consider Three Point Hitch counterbalance for heavy FEL loads. Some use a Rotary Cutter/Bush Hog but R/Cs protrudes far to the rear and can limit maneuverability. Most common FEL counterbalance implement is a Box Blade. For proper counterbalance you will need a Box Blade with a weight of at least 100 pounds per foot of width, 120 pounds per foot of width better.

Currently looking at Kubota and something like a B3350 - but then.... saw Kioti, John Deere, and others - and that led to the information overload.

Anything we should take into consideration? Missing any brands? the width limitation is really driving the decision here.
Look at LS tractor brand too. Like Kioti, imported from Korea.

Bear in mind tractor widths are with R1/ag tires, the narrowest tires.
R4/industrial tires equip 90% of compact utility tractors. R4s increase tractor rear tire spreads 4" to 6" over "spec".

Bigfoot62 · Jul 29, 2018

Jeff,
Wow! What a well written and thoughtful response. Good advice.
Found it very interesting that you mostly talked about tractor weight. Those of us involved in Ag operations talk about such things regularly. Not often that I hear that discussed when talking about sub-compacts.
My newest, the 5090M, weighs about 6 tons with the FEL and rear wheel weights. As I have heard all my life, "all the HP in the world won't do you any good if you can't get it to the ground."

ViperDriver · Jul 29, 2018

Wow - thank you for the responses.

Answer questions first:

I think the R4 Industrial tires are a good compromise for what we need / flat areas vs inclines. I did not know that they add width - IMPORTANT in our case - thank you! That might push us into the smaller base model. The 55" L2501 can't really afford to have the R4 tires if it adds 6". When we looked at them - that felt like the beefier tractor, which we liked. However, - even if the tires don't push that too wide, in configuring one, they only have a 66" bucket - which I think is a deal breaker (and I can't understand why the Grand L's have so many other width buckets.... - maybe dealer would swap out to a 60"?)

The open area is 1.5 - 2 acres. Of that - maybe 3/4 acre is septic field, and the rest kept in a "pasture" condition - but it's not pasture now (but may be in the future) Everything else wooded.

The shop being built has a 13'6" overhead door, so I am not height limited on the ROPS and won't have to fold it down - but my width limitation will likely keep the height in check.

Do we "need" a backhoe - no - but there's a reasonable amount of water management / drainage work that still needs to be done under the driveways and alongside the road. Paying someone to do it will be WELL over $8K.

Looked at the L3560 - NICE MACHINE - but too pricey for us, and with the width, we'd spend $2K every time we took it behind the house replacing the custom downspout that we'd tear off in the process.

Going to research LS and Kioti - Kioti are built in Wilson, NC - only about 45 minutes from us - might be decent to support local.... And will start spreadsheet - thank you for the thoughts - especially on weight. It's not our normal thought process: pile on the weight and settle for less HP..... but it makes sense.

jeff9366 · Jul 29, 2018

ViperDriver said:
Answer questions first:

The open area is 1.5 - 2 acres. Of that - maybe 3/4 acre is septic field, and the rest kept in a "pasture" condition - but it's not pasture now (but may be in the future) Everything else wooded.

Going to research LS and Kioti - Kioti are built in Wilson, NC - only about 45 minutes from us - might be decent to support local.

Kubota B2650/B3350 seems close to ideal. I have a Kubota 'Grand L' and I really like DELUXE KIT on B2650/B3350/L3560 after two sparely equipped predecessor tractors.
VIDEO: Kubota B5-Series tractors, B265 & B335. Review and functions | Messick's - YouTube

Give Kioti careful consideration. Parts might arrive overnight when needed.

majorwager · Jul 29, 2018

Viper Driver. jeffy always pushes the weight aspect, it is excessive/ compulsive. The mantra could easily be labeled

"BUY TOO MUCH TRACTOR"

I own both large and smaller tractors and a 2000 lb 25 gross hp tractor will perform a lot of tasks.

Take a look at RK Tractors made by TYM. Even if you do not select them, their pricing is very favorable. A You Tube channel, Outdoors with the Morgan's is very informative. Mike is currently testing three RK tractors beginning with video # 124. Worth a look, he puts these tractors through their paces while explaining the operation at each step..

RK Tractors Pricing and tractor sizes in easy viewing on website. Note: None of the compacts are built on US Soil. Some are assembled in the US.

outdoors with the morgans youtube - Bing

There is also a thread concerning tractor purchasing wherein a number of folks expressed satisfaction w/ very capable smaller tractors. The thread is long but worth the time investment

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...uide-shopping-sizing-tractor-development.html

YOU TUBE Video 124 for the YOU TUBE MORGAN'S CHANNEL, my ERROR ###### ##### # ## #

RK Tractor Store
Morganton
Call 828-317-1895
1227 Burkemont Ave.
Morganton, NC 28655
Full Line Tractor Store
RK Tractors Available Now

ViperDriver · Jul 29, 2018

17 pages! and I learned a lot about personalities. ;-)

Looking back at L2501 and the L Series @ Kubota but they show that with a 66" bucket which is WEIRD and nothing smaller..., considering the B26TLB for some of the apparently unique options, checked out RK (seriously budget conscious), working through Kioti.

Found package deal pricing with trailers and everything on tractor house.com (really, cheaper in Texas? ROAD TRIP...) and some good deals in Illinois. List prices are crazy - but there appears to be a large amount of markup, as well as much savings as you load up with attachments / accessories.

Progress is being made. Still look like this, though... :shocked:

Tractorable · Jul 29, 2018

If you’re interested in the Kubota B3350, cross shop the Yanmar YT235. Premium features, a little more weight than the B, 60” wide with R4’s, and has a 60” bucket. Japanese quality, assembled in Georgia.