Help; gear grinding sound when shifting; help

geish · Dec 20, 2005

I need help with knowing if my situation is normal or not. Here's what's going on:

I have the range lever on neutral and the gear shifter on neutral. I then push the clutch all the way down, actuate the pto lever, and release the clutch slowly to get the Hog spinning. I then set it to the appropriate RPM marking (you know what I mean "540 pto").

So, at this time, I have the Hog running with the engine revved at the appropriate RPM, and have released the clutch pedal. The tractor isn't moving since it's on neutral.

I then press the clutch down (keep in mind I have the two stage clutch), and WHEN I SHIFT THE RANGE LEVER OR GEAR LEVER it kinda grinds like I don't have the clutch pushed down (you know that feeling and sound). Of course, if I just quickly "jam" it in gear, it doesn't grind for obvious reasons. I know I'm pushing the clutch down enough. Heck, sometimes I push it down even further than necessary, but it still does it.

Now, do I have a problem with my clutch or is it normal.
I think it has something to do with revving the engine before I go into gear.

I know when I'm just moving around the farm, shifting gears isn't a problem. No grinding sound. During these times or gear change, the engine isn't revving.

Also, SOMETIMES, when I actuate the PTO lever with the clutch all the way down, it also feels like it's grinding.

Thanks in advance. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Berniep · Dec 21, 2005

This is normal
What is happening is you are getting those tranmission gears spinning and they may take a long time to slow down when you push in on the clutch. I used to operate an old white tractor baling hay that took forever for them to slow down enough to put it in gear. Semi trucks have something called a clutch brake to slow the gears down, it engages when you push the clutch all the way to the floor, I think this would be a great idea on a farm tractor. Maybe they do have them but I have just not run into them.

geish · Dec 21, 2005

Bernie. Thanks for putting my mind at ease.
I hope I don't wear out my collars.

I guess I can keep the revving low with the PTO running, shift to the appropriate gear, then increase RPM's from there. It SHOULD minimize the grinding hopefully.
Also, shouldn't syncros take care of the problem? I guess tractors don't have them.

Thanks again.

slowzuki · Dec 21, 2005

You also may wish to have someone more familiar with 2 stage clutches drive the sucker as they can get out of adjustment.

Ken

kubotaman68 · Dec 21, 2005

Another thing to consider is that it COULD be your throw out bearing is sticking, we just split a 3400 dt for grinding gears and sticking in gear occasionally and the throwout bearing was sticking due to lack of lubrication. just a thought

BGL990 · Dec 21, 2005

I expect it's just the gears taking a while to slow down. My JD990 does the same thing, as does most of the "old iron" I've driven. I generally keep the hand throttle at idle and just use the foot throttle for the stuff I do, so it's easy to let off the throttle to shift and it does help a bit. If it's revving high it takes a long time for the gears to stop spinning when you press the clutch.

geish · Dec 21, 2005

I think it IS the gears taking time to slow down. I tested it today. I had the range and gear lever both in neutral. I then revved the engine, pushed the cluth, then shifted. It did make that grinding noise, but if I DON'T rev it before pushing in the clutch and shifting, no grinding.

I'll leave it at that. I get overly obsessive compulsive about my new toys being just perfect. I gotta stop this madness. LOL. I have some tiny rust spots here and there and it's keeping me up at night. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

..........I'll wax that baby and paint it on my time off this coming Monday.

CT_Tree_Guy · Dec 22, 2005

*Forgot to post this yesterday - hope it's not out-dated*

geish, how goes it? Nice to talk to you again, I enjoyed and just re-read our PM's.

I can't quite tell for sure, but it sounds to me that maybe you might have a little bit of both things going on here - something wrong (clutch out of adjustment or other problem like something bent in the clutch linkage, some thing stopping the full travel of your clutch pedal), or possibly you are indeed revving it up too much before shifting into gear. I would of course advise you not to rev it at all prior to shifting into gear. Shift at or near idle, let out the clutch as you give her some gas, and you should be off to the races.

That tranny has got to be a synchro, someone please correct me if I'm wrong. It can't be collar shift? I don't know how many hours you have on your tractor (go ahead and fill out your personal info, including tractor hours, hat size and favorite Beatle) but if they're at all low, the synchros can't be shot yet? No reason it should be grinding as you describe, even with a few extra rpms. Of course, I've never driven a 3400, but I'm just going by what I've experienced about Kubota, that their stuff is pretty rugged and bomb-proof. I just don't think they'd make a "grindy" synchro tranny.

It just sounds a lot to me like one of Internationals who'd dearly like her pressure plate pushed on just a wee bit more.
If you can sneak a peak at the clutch release bearing, just make sure that there's not too much play between the release bearing and the pressure plate, and that the clutch disc is getting fully released as you push the pedal all the way down.

If the clutch and linkage checks out OK, then just do as the PP suggested and make sure you spin her down for as long as it takes before you shift into gear.

Hold on, stop the presses, I think I might have figured it out. With the hog spinning like that, it seems to me that the engine is going to have a much harder time slowing down than if the PTO were not engaged. Hmm, it also depends on what gear you're trying to shift into with the PTO spinning at 540. You've got a lot more potential for grinding when you try to shift into 1st than into 4th it seems to me. Is it easier with the higher gears?

Lastly, in a pinch, I guess you could try not engaging the PTO until you've selected a gear? Engine at idle, release clutch, shift into (whatever) gear, engage PTO, rev it up as your engage clutch? I dunno, just hoping tractor clutches work the same as car/truck clutches, or I'm going to look pretty stupid. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Also hope you CAN engage the PTO when you're in gear. Can't see why not, if the clutch is disengaged? I've rarely used the PTO on my tractor. I just spin it a few times a month to keep it loosened up and get the juices flowing. Still thinking of getting that cement mixer for mixing Margaritas though - my rig would be the life of any party. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

geish · Dec 23, 2005

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If the clutch and linkage checks out OK, then just do as the PP suggested and make sure you spin her down for as long as it takes before you shift into gear.

Hold on, stop the presses, I think I might have figured it out. With the hog spinning like that, it seems to me that the engine is going to have a much harder time slowing down than if the PTO were not engaged. Hmm, it also depends on what gear you're trying to shift into with the PTO spinning at 540. You've got a lot more potential for grinding when you try to shift into 1st than into 4th it seems to me. Is it easier with the higher gears?

Lastly, in a pinch, I guess you could try not engaging the PTO until you've selected a gear? Engine at idle, release clutch, shift into (whatever) gear, engage PTO, rev it up as your engage clutch? I dunno, just hoping tractor clutches work the same as car/truck clutches, or I'm going to look pretty stupid. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Also hope you CAN engage the PTO when you're in gear. Can't see why not, if the clutch is disengaged? I've rarely used the PTO on my tractor. I just spin it a few times a month to keep it loosened up and get the juices flowing. Still thinking of getting that cement mixer for mixing Margaritas though - my rig would be the life of any party. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )</font>

Hey CT,
I decided that this is what I would do:

Push the clutch pedal in ALL the way, choose range and gear, actuate the PTO lever, release the clutch half way to engage PTO, rev to appropriate 540 marking, release the clutch pedal all the way to get the tractor going. No grinding at all.

I have about 5hrs. on my 3400. Keep in mind I have a two stage clutch.

I better look at the manual to see about clutch adjustments. I really doubt that it's out of adjustment already.

I kindly ask others who have a 3400DT to report what their experiences are with their own tractors.
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

JerryG · Dec 23, 2005

I have never owned or worked on your model of tractor. (need to say that first) Most if not all tractors don't have synros on the PTO shift. They need to have the RPM reduced so that the gears will mash easier. If you have the RPMs at a high level when you try to put the PTO in gear, you are risking jerking a tooth off of a gear. Some actually engage easier if the engine is off.