Help! GC1705 Hydraulics out

[ChrisInKY]

Mowed about 7 rows in back yard on hill. Coming up hill I lost all power. Shut blades off and crawled to top of hill (where it was safe). Hopped off to check hydraulic level (I had checked before mowing and it was fine) and low and behold the site glass was missing.

Took my son an hour+ but we found it in the back yard along with trails of hydro fluid all over the grass :-(

Still under warranty - do you guys think operating it like this I've damaged anything? Anyone else lost the sight glass before? Found the part and its just cheap plastic. Little worried about it happening again long term.

For now leaving it parked and will tow to dealer tomorrow....

Photos of missing sight glass and my wonderful hydro trails in the grass (didn't notice as it rained last night and grass was slightly wet).....

Shared album - Chris Storer - Google Photos

 

[rider7767]

Put loctite on it. If it was still moving, it still had some oil pressure. I would not be worried about it. I would fill the transmission back up and run for a few hours. I would then change the transmission fluid paying special attention to the suction screen. If there is an inordinate amount of metal in the screen I would be carrying it to the dealer. Document everything with pictures or video.

 

[ChrisInKY]

Thanks. At this point with right at 200 hours on it I think I'll roll it on a trailer and have the dealer take a look, will call Massey in the morning see what they can do....

 

[AxleHub]

I'd water the heck out of your lawn where the hydro fluid hit or those strips could be dead for a couple years.

Did the sight glass break or it somehow came loose ???? Did any warning lights come on ?

 

[kennyd]

Put loctite on it.

On a plastic sight glass? Regular Loctite will eat most plastics in short order!

 

[oldnslo]

Was the HST whining or growling more than normal? Did power steering still work OK? If noisy or steering wasn't working I would have the dealer come and get it since these would indicate you were running low on oil and cavitating the pump(s) which is a death sentence to pumps.

 

[ChrisInKY]

Where it broke is so far back I can't water it well (I could if the tractor worked and I could fill the 3pt sprayer with water, buuuuut....)

The sight glass just popped out. It is plastic. It had some of the gray factory paint still attached to it also, no clue why it came out. When I got the tractor I had what I thought was a bad leak. I took it to the dealer, they cleaned it and told me it had been overfilled by the dealer that sold it to me (bought several hours north, and then service closer to home). That was at 50 hours, I'm at 200 now. I watch the hydro fill glass carefully after the initial issue.
I found the site glass (or plastic really) about 1/2 way up my hill on probably my 3rd of 7 passes, so I made 3 or 4 trips back up the hill until I noticed anything.
So, no alarms, no lights no indication anything was wrong. We got rain last night, a big temp drop, and high humidity so there was lots of dew on the grass. As I went up the steepest part of the hill I was losing power, mower was spinning strong, so I thought the tires were spinning. I engaged 4wd, tried again and moved slowly up the hill, I watched the wheels and had no slipping, so I figured something was wrong. I parked it 20ft from where it had trouble on a flat/safe spot, hopped off to check fluids and found the glass was gone. Shut tractor off immediately and had neighbors help me push it to the garage.....
Took a good long while, found the site glass piece, it's black plastic with ridges to press into the spot on the hydrostat. I'm guessing it worked out, I have no clue if it's under pressure or not, but very nervous trusting just "popping" it back in for the long term. Also worried I may have damaged my transaxle/pump for the long term. Plant to call Massey in the morning and see what they want me to do.

I'm mid having an inground pool put in, I really need the tractor for landscaping by the end of the week, and of course the grass need cuts. So for the short term I'll have to pay someone to cut the grass, and figure the rest out as it comes.... Nothing's ever easy....

I'd water the heck out of your lawn where the hydro fluid hit or those strips could be dead for a couple years.

Did the sight glass break or it somehow came loose ???? Did any warning lights come on ?

 

[ChrisInKY]

Was the HST whining or growling more than normal? Did power steering still work OK? If noisy or steering wasn't working I would have the dealer come and get it since these would indicate you were running low on oil and cavitating the pump(s) which is a death sentence to pumps.

I did not hear the HST whine, however the mower blades were engaged until the end (which I think goes through the HST). Power steer was dead as a doornail, could barely steer it. Thats my fear - think I should push for a pump replacement?

 

[Ooklaa]

i would tell em i want a brand new tractor period. they can deal with what long term problem it will have. keep you in the same payments you are now etc. I would no except anything else. i would have every single little thing documented.

 

[rider7767]

On a plastic sight glass? Regular Loctite will eat most plastics in short order!

Loctite is a name brand. They sell about every kind of glue, sealant, foam, that is known to man.
Welcome to the World of Loctite | Select your kind of use

 

[AxleHub]

With all due respect to those talking about the sight glass going back in . . . I casually looked at my sight glass last night and it rather appears there is a metal retaining ring that surrpunds the sight glass andis potentially threaded on its sides to attach to the area. Now I could be in error . . But it sure doesn't make srnse it is merely glued into the opening does it? Becausr what would it be glued "to" ?

And isn't it likely there is some sort of pressure involved ?

But even more importantly . . If its going to be a warranty claim (5 years on the driveline system and 2 on the whole unit) . . why would you risk even starting it up unless it was the dealer turning the key ? And if there was some loctite or glue on the metal or on the sight glass . . Wouldn't that complicate the warranty claim ? And believability ?

 

[rider7767]

With all due respect to those talking about the sight glass going back in . . . I casually looked at my sight glass last night and it rather appears there is a metal retaining ring that surrpunds the sight glass andis potentially threaded on its sides to attach to the area. Now I could be in error . . But it sure doesn't make srnse it is merely glued into the opening does it? Becausr what would it be glued "to" ?

And isn't it likely there is some sort of pressure involved ?

But even more importantly . . If its going to be a warranty claim (5 years on the driveline system and 2 on the whole unit) . . why would you risk even starting it up unless it was the dealer turning the key ? And if there was some loctite or glue on the metal or on the sight glass . . Wouldn't that complicate the warranty claim ? And believability ?

All valid concerns. There is only the pressure of the oils setting in the common sump behind the glass. There is little to no pressure. Honestly, I have much more experience on the Kubota tractors in this size. The transmission cases are almost identical; however, on the Kubota tractors that I have worked on, they did not drill and thread it for a sight glass. It is blank. My tractor looks to have a fine threaded hole, and the parts manual is just showing the sight glass. As far as the warranty, I am not suggesting gooping it on. Only applying a small amount of the appropriate sealant to the threads. This is just me and what I would do. Everyone has their own comfort level. It never hurts to build a relationship with the dealer. I would for sure, let them know what happened, by email and face to face.

 

[rider7767]

On a plastic sight glass? Regular Loctite will eat most plastics in short order!

I just can't help myself, how do they keep the loctite thread lock in those plastic bottles?

 

[AxleHub]

Just curious . . if there is no retaining ring that holds the sight glass in the case . . Then are there threads on the edge of the sight glass ?

My point is . . Looking at the sight glass is the clear display of the hydro fluid. So if no retaining ring exists holding the piece in place and the piece is all clear and fluid is there . . . It would need something threaded or merely "gluing the edge" would seem incredibly weak fir something this important.

Makes me not want to rub ir clean that sight glass if that were the case lol.

 

[ChrisInKY]

I'll post pics of the sight glass shortly. It's just black plastic with some ridges, and it pressure fits into a machined hole in the tractor, no threads, no snap ring etc.

Called Massey 800#, they told me to work with dealer first, but not to do anything to tractor, push/pull it on a trailer as-is.

Called dealer, they will look at it for me, have father-in-law coming to help get it trailered this morning. They said they'll call Agco to figure out how to proceed on teardown vs just refilling and testing pressures.

I truly hope they'll at least replace the pump for me, or extend the drivetrain warranty if not. I've babied this thing thus far and had the dealer do the service, so there is 0 reason for this to happen this early in the tractor's life...

C

Just curious . . if there is no retaining ring that holds the sight glass in the case . . Then are there threads on the edge of the sight glass ?

My point is . . Looking at the sight glass is the clear display of the hydro fluid. So if no retaining ring exists holding the piece in place and the piece is all clear and fluid is there . . . It would need something threaded or merely "gluing the edge" would seem incredibly weak fir something this important.

Makes me not want to rub ir clean that sight glass if that were the case lol.

 

[ChrisInKY]

More photos, including the sight glass from multiple angles. I thought the black plastic had ridges, it does not, it just press fits in. You can see that it looks like the gray paint from the tractor was stuck on it and came off on the ring and left bare metal on the tractor as if it was what was holding it in place....

Shared album - Chris Storer - Google Photos

 

[AxleHub]

Chris . . the pictures gelped a great deal. You'd say it was black while mine is clear and no retaining ring.

So seeing your pictures I now understand that it wasn't just a clear little circular window that came out . . Its actually the window plus the surrounding retaing ring for the clear window.

Now it makes sense how it could be a pressure fit or how it could be glued in place.

By the way as a suggestion . . when going to see the dealer . . think in terms of what would be your optimum "fix" . . and let the dealer and Agco talk you down . . rather than stating what would be your minimum desire lol.

 

[rider7767]

Just curious . . if there is no retaining ring that holds the sight glass in the case . . Then are there threads on the edge of the sight glass ?

My point is . . Looking at the sight glass is the clear display of the hydro fluid. So if no retaining ring exists holding the piece in place and the piece is all clear and fluid is there . . . It would need something threaded or merely "gluing the edge" would seem incredibly weak fir something this important.

Makes me not want to rub ir clean that sight glass if that were the case lol.

I agree. I have always worried about backing up and poking it with a stick.

 

[rider7767]

Chris . . the pictures gelped a great deal. You'd say it was black while mine is clear and no retaining ring.

So seeing your pictures I now understand that it wasn't just a clear little circular window that came out . . Its actually the window plus the surrounding retaing ring for the clear window.

Now it makes sense how it could be a pressure fit or how it could be glued in place.

By the way as a suggestion . . when going to see the dealer . . think in terms of what would be your optimum "fix" . . and let the dealer and Agco talk you down . . rather than stating what would be your minimum desire lol.

Wow; it is pressed in like a wheel seal. I don't like that. It looks like it had some sort of sealant on it. I will be watching mine closely. Thank you for sharing. Let us know the results.

 

[ChrisInKY]

Will keep everyone posted, thanks for all tips both mechanical and dealing with the dealer. Personally I see plastic being press fit into metal as a long term reliability issue. I'm assuming as these tractors age that plastic will age, become brittle, shrink etc. I hope I'm wrong and not the first of many. Anyone with more engineering experience than I care to chime in? I would think that the metal heating/cooling and plastic heating/cooling is going to happen at different rates and not be a good long term solution. Anyone know how other tractors sight lasses are made or installed?