Heavy Grinding on stick. Unable to go in and out of gear.

[UrbannGuerilla]

Wow, broke before it even leaves the trailer. That is hard to take. Any idea how long the tractor sat before you bought?

MarkV

Usually when a clutch sticks the tractor has set without running for an extended period (months or longer). How long did the tractor sit between when the clutch worked and you started having problems?

Mark/Dex, I wish I knew the answer to that. I don't know how long it has been sitting, but I do know that it has been sitting. We bought it from a nice old lady in her late 70's at least. She bought the tractor from her wealthy neighbor who was the original owner. The original owner used to only use this tractor to bush hog her 6 acres. (Woods X72 Rotary) I'm not sure how much the nice lady (second owner) we bought it from used it. Its a 1983 tractor and it only has around 1900 hours on it.

Dex, Test drove it about 2 weeks ago, We bought the tractor about 10 days ago(and drove it that day obviously, had to load it) .. I'm gonna say 10 days ago maybe? We drove it around at the ladies' house. Everything was fine. There were no problems. (Besides a small leak in the auxillary high pressure hydraulic side- BUT- we have no remote accessories hooked to it, and it only leaks when you engage the aux hydraulics that we aren't even using right now. We do plan on having it fixed regardless.)
We started it this saturday, but didn't put it into gear to my recollection. So I would say.. 10 days..'ish?

 

[Farmerford]

UG:

The tractor history is consistent with a failed pilot bearing. Even if the bearing is sealed (probably is) the grease will likely have hardened and/or leaked out in 27 years. If used to mow only 6 acres on an "estate" with a rotary mower there may have been lots of starting, stopping, and particularly backing up slowly; all of which wears the clutch disk, throwout bearing, and pilot bearing.

Be careful about trying the customary fixes for a stuck clutch: bumping the engine with the starter while the transmission is in top gear with the clutch depressed and, much more deadly (and my preferred method on my old Jeep when I know the clutch is stuck, but not too bad) starting the engine with the transmission in top gear (usually by a push start rather than the starter) and then running with the clutch depressed until it is unstuck. If the problem really is a failed and seized or seizing pilot bearing, with these methods the pilot bearing and the snout on the transmission input shaft are transmitting the full torque of the engine (because the clutch is depressed and therefore not engaged (since we are assuming it is not stuck)). The transmission shaft snout is considerably smaller in diameter (probably less that 3/4") than the splined portion of the shaft where the clutch disk slides, and if the pilot bearing seizes up completely and if the snout is rusted firmly to the inner race, you could twist the snout off the end of the transmission shaft.

As an aside, if the tractor is so firmly against the front of the trailer, can you let the air out of the front tires to get some pressure off the driveline? That should let you shift the transmission to neutral and roll or pull the tractor off the trailer for repair.

Good luck.

 

[banjodunn]

G'day not sure about your modelbut some tractors have an inspection plate on the bottom/side of the bellhousing with some you can see the clutch plate if you can with yours then depress the clutch pedal and see if you can prise the clutch disc off the flywheel or pressure plate if this does free up then drive the tractor round the yard making the clutch slip a bit to polish up any rusty surfaces inside.



Jon

 

[UrbannGuerilla]

UG:

A defective pilot bearing can cause those symptoms. In a nearly 30 year old tractor like that the inner race is likely rusty and either stuck to or very tight on the end of the transmission input shaft where it fits into the pilot bearing in the center of the crankshaft flange. If the ball bearings are going bad, the bearing will seize up, turning the input shaft through the bearing. The seizures of the bearing, at least at first, may not be consistent. Sometimes it will seize and sometimes it will not.

That is the only thing I can think of that will be intermittent. A stuck clutch will not act that way. Misadjusted linkage is not likely to act that way either.

That will also explain hanging up in gear, since when the bearing seizes it can keep the driveline under torque even when the clutch is depressed.

The pilot bearing can only be repaired by splitting the tractor at the clutch housing and while the mechanic is in there he might as well replace the clutch disk and pressure plate, and have the flywheel resurfaced.

The parts should not be expensive, since they are so often needed, unless your tractor is rare (weren't those AC's built by FIAT?). The labor will probably be the largest part of the bill by far. I have no idea of the cost because I have always done my own work. But I can easily imagine $1,000 to $2,000.

Please let us know what it turns out to be.

My old Farmall, the clutch stuck one time, some years back. These things happen.
Here's a way to unstick it if it's that the face of the friction disc is stuck to the flywheel or the pressure plate and it's not frozen up too bad. I'm guessing that yours is a diesel, you'll want to do something to keep it from starting, on the trailer and all. Pull the kill knob? Disconnect the fuel? Anyway...
Put it in gear, hold the brakes, bump the starter. That may do it. Tying the clutch petal down when you put it away at night can keep that from happening again.
If it's that the linkages or the fingers on the pressure plate have a problem that keeps the throw-out bearing from making the clutch release then that's different.
Wm

Usually when a clutch sticks the tractor has set without running for an extended period (months or longer). How long did the tractor sit between when the clutch worked and you started having problems?

We finally got the tractor to our local tractor guy. I was a little afraid to do anything with the tractor and starter with it pushed against the front bar. The guy held the brake, bumped the starter twice.. and got it out of gear. Started the tractor, put it in reverse.. and rode it off the trailer slowly using the brakes. After he got it off the trailer it wanted to stick again.. he idled it up to about 2000rpm, put it in gear, and stood on the brake for a few moments.. and after that everything worked fine. He recommended getting a cinder block, or peice of wood, or rope, and tie down the clutch when the tractor is "done for the day, couple days, week, etc."

He further explained that it happens usually to tractors that stay outside, it happens when moisture is present around the plates.

**ADDITION** He charged us 20 bucks.

Thank you guys for actually knowing the right things.. even though I was a little scared to ruin something further, at least I know now that it works. :thumbsup:

 

[MarkV]

Twenty bucks!! Did you try to negotiate? That had to be a big relief. Also with more regular use it should be less of a problem. My 2007 Kubota has a lock down tab for the clutch. It is describe for long term storage in the owners manual. Glad things worked out so well.

MarkV

 

[UrbannGuerilla]

Twenty bucks!! Did you try to negotiate? That had to be a big relief. Also with more regular use it should be less of a problem. My 2007 Kubota has a lock down tab for the clutch. It is describe for long term storage in the owners manual. Glad things worked out so well.

MarkV

No, there was no negotiation Mark.:laughing: In fact, we gave him 40 dollars because we were so happy it wasn't 2,000 dollars. Maybe that extra 20 will help us in the future if we need it... who knows..

Interesting to know that your tractor actually has a clutch lock tab, and that is a common/recommended procedure.

 

[Soundguy]

if it unstuck like that. I'm thinking OILY clutch.. not clasic rusty clutch.

an oil yclutch can be grabby, and slow to disengage, and can stick also from setting.

blocking the clutch when not in use will allow you to use it.. but keep in mind.. one day you will need to fix it... oily clutches are usually input shaft seals.. and less often, rear main seals.

if there is a bellhousing drain, make sure it is open.. as you don't want oil pooling inthe dry area of the clutch.

soundguy

 

[Eagleview]

The fact that there was 4" of free play indicates the throwout bearing has worn through the pressure plate fingers and is not releasing the clutch . I would say the throwout bearing has seized and burnt it's way through the fingers and is only JUST working occasionally .

 

[Ford tractor]

I would do 8-10 full throttle starts in high gear (from a dead stop) to help burn off any goo on the clutch or rust on the flywheel/PP. If there is a throwout bearing grease point, be sure to pump it 2 times.

Did the prior owner store the tractor in a barn and you left it out for 10 days? It could be moisture forming rust. From now on -- always chock the peddle down every time you leave the machine.

 

[UrbannGuerilla]

I would do 8-10 full throttle starts in high gear (from a dead stop) to help burn off any goo on the clutch or rust on the flywheel/PP. If there is a throwout bearing grease point, be sure to pump it 2 times.

Did the prior owner store the tractor in a barn and you left it out for 10 days? It could be moisture forming rust. From now on -- always chock the peddle down every time you leave the machine.

FT, yes. It was under an aluminum carport w/ a jonboat that was separate from her home. It had open ends, but it was covered. And, Yes. It has been on our trailer since we got it.. so it has been in the weather. (although we don't intend on it to stay in the weather for much longer)

For the grease points, we greased every zerk in the original owner/operators manual the lady still had for it. (and service manual)