Heavy Grinding on stick. Unable to go in and out of gear.

[UrbannGuerilla]

First let me say that nothing has changed since we bought the tractor. It hasn't even been taken off the trailer we loaded it on when we bought it.

This weekend we checked all the fluids (added none, everything was fine), greased all the zirks, checked dirt cup, air filter, other filters, etc. Started the tractor a couple times, but that was it. I dont think we even put it in gear Saturday, because it was still chain tensioned to the trailer the whole day.

Today we put the bush hog together, and a few other things. We started the tractor, it started fine- and DID go into reverse without any problems. We only backed it up a few feet ON the trailer and stopped. Turned off the engine.

After the above, the clutch did not seem to operate correctly. The tractor refused to go into any gear, 1-8 High, Low, Reverse. Nothing. The clutch did have too much play in it (about 4 inches), so we pulled the "bobby pins" out of the pin that held the clutch together, shortened the rods' throw length on the clutch so that it had 1&3/8" of play according to the manual- thinking that could be the problem.- No improvement. Even with my father on the seat, with the tractor started & the clutch fully in- when he tried to put it in gear (fwd or rev)- the gears grind, we can see the rear tractor tires move slightly in the direction (fwd or rev) we are trying to engage WITH the clutch fully engaged.

We called the local tractor shop and they said it sounded like possibly the clutch was stuck? What does this cost to repair on average? What causes the clutch to stick? How do I prevent this from happening in the future? Does anyone else have any other ideas on what the problem may be if its not a "stuck clutch"?

I know thats a lot of questions, I'm just trying to understand the problem, the solution, and prevention in the future.

-UG

Allis-Chalmers AC5050 1983 50hp

***ADDITION***
I forgot to mention that we did manage to get the tractor into first gear to move it back up on the trailer to haul for repairs. The tractor is now stuck in 1st gear, we can't get it out.

 

[jlsmith]

Try leaving it in gear while you crank it then drive it around stomping on the clutch it might free up

 

[RoyJackson]

Did you operate this machine before you bought it? If not, how was it loaded on the trailer?
Was the clutch adjusted before you tried putting it in gear?

At this point, the variable seems to be your clutch adjustment. I suggest you undo what you did and try shifting.

 

[Farmerford]

UG:

A defective pilot bearing can cause those symptoms. In a nearly 30 year old tractor like that the inner race is likely rusty and either stuck to or very tight on the end of the transmission input shaft where it fits into the pilot bearing in the center of the crankshaft flange. If the ball bearings are going bad, the bearing will seize up, turning the input shaft through the bearing. The seizures of the bearing, at least at first, may not be consistent. Sometimes it will seize and sometimes it will not.

That is the only thing I can think of that will be intermittent. A stuck clutch will not act that way. Misadjusted linkage is not likely to act that way either.

That will also explain hanging up in gear, since when the bearing seizes it can keep the driveline under torque even when the clutch is depressed.

The pilot bearing can only be repaired by splitting the tractor at the clutch housing and while the mechanic is in there he might as well replace the clutch disk and pressure plate, and have the flywheel resurfaced.

The parts should not be expensive, since they are so often needed, unless your tractor is rare (weren't those AC's built by FIAT?). The labor will probably be the largest part of the bill by far. I have no idea of the cost because I have always done my own work. But I can easily imagine $1,000 to $2,000.

Please let us know what it turns out to be.

 

[MarkV]

Wow, broke before it even leaves the trailer. That is hard to take. Any idea how long the tractor sat before you bought?

MarkV

 

[dex3361]

Usually when a clutch sticks the tractor has set without running for an extended period (months or longer). How long did the tractor sit between when the clutch worked and you started having problems?

 

[willfick]

My old Farmall, the clutch stuck one time, some years back. These things happen.
Here's a way to unstick it if it's that the face of the friction disc is stuck to the flywheel or the pressure plate and it's not frozen up too bad. I'm guessing that yours is a diesel, you'll want to do something to keep it from starting, on the trailer and all. Pull the kill knob? Disconnect the fuel? Anyway...
Put it in gear, hold the brakes, bump the starter. That may do it. Tying the clutch petal down when you put it away at night can keep that from happening again.
If it's that the linkages or the fingers on the pressure plate have a problem that keeps the throw-out bearing from making the clutch release then that's different.
Wm

 

[UrbannGuerilla]

Try leaving it in gear while you crank it then drive it around stomping on the clutch it might free up

That would be an option if we hadn't finally gotten it back into first, and pulled it back up to the front trailer bar to tension back down and take to the tractor doctor. Its stuck in low 1 right now, against the front trailer bar.

 

[UrbannGuerilla]

Did you operate this machine before you bought it? If not, how was it loaded on the trailer?
Was the clutch adjusted before you tried putting it in gear?

At this point, the variable seems to be your clutch adjustment. I suggest you undo what you did and try shifting.

Yes, my father initially checked it out, approximately a week before we bought it. He started it, (it DID need a jump-battery), drove it around, operated the 3 point, PTO, etc...

It was driven onto the trailer.

We did not even think about, nor bother the clutch prior to the sticking problem occurring. AFTER the problem started happening is when we thought the clutch may have too much slack in it.

 

[UrbannGuerilla]

UG:

A defective pilot bearing can cause those symptoms. In a nearly 30 year old tractor like that the inner race is likely rusty and either stuck to or very tight on the end of the transmission input shaft where it fits into the pilot bearing in the center of the crankshaft flange. If the ball bearings are going bad, the bearing will seize up, turning the input shaft through the bearing. The seizures of the bearing, at least at first, may not be consistent. Sometimes it will seize and sometimes it will not.

That is the only thing I can think of that will be intermittent. A stuck clutch will not act that way. Misadjusted linkage is not likely to act that way either.

That will also explain hanging up in gear, since when the bearing seizes it can keep the driveline under torque even when the clutch is depressed.

The pilot bearing can only be repaired by splitting the tractor at the clutch housing and while the mechanic is in there he might as well replace the clutch disk and pressure plate, and have the flywheel resurfaced.

The parts should not be expensive, since they are so often needed, unless your tractor is rare (weren't those AC's built by FIAT?). The labor will probably be the largest part of the bill by far. I have no idea of the cost because I have always done my own work. But I can easily imagine $1,000 to $2,000.

Please let us know what it turns out to be.

Wow, that is an abundance of information F Ford. I appreciate your thorough response. I will certainly go over this with my father, as we are not veteran tractor owners. He is much more mechanically inclined than I am (by far), but I'm learning.

Yes, I do believe it is a FIAT. 3 cyl diesel.