Heat Pumps and their parts availability ..house A/C units as well

brin · Nov 3, 2010

We built our house 6 yrs. ago and installed 2 heat pumps. Today the serviceman came to do the annual winter service and as we talked he told me my units used the old style Freon that the EPA has outlawed and replacement parts were no longer available for any heat pumps or home air conditioners that used the old style Freon...How does that grab you ? So think about it...my units are only 6 yrs. old and if one broke today I could not get parts...I would have to buy a whole new unit for another $3 or $4k....Makes me sick

charlz · Nov 3, 2010

Yep, quick google search shows this:

Home

R22 equipment is no longer being manufactured as of 2010, R22 itself will still be made and available until 2020 for recharging etc.

Looks like R410A equipment, the replacement for R22, was available at least as far back as the late 90's:

R-410A: A Tale of Success

Unfortunately your contractor was not on-board

Should there be a label or something on the equipment so people can tell what they have?

rjkobbeman · Nov 3, 2010

brin said:
We built our house 6 yrs. ago and installed 2 heat pumps. Today the serviceman came to do the annual winter service and as we talked he told me my units used the old style Freon that the EPA has outlawed and replacement parts were no longer available for any heat pumps or home air conditioners that used the old style Freon...How does that grab you ? So think about it...my units are only 6 yrs. old and if one broke today I could not get parts...I would have to buy a whole new unit for another $3 or $4k....Makes me sick

A year ago my AC went out. This was in a 10 year old -- "old" Freon -- unit. The compressor was shot.

The guy who installed it had NOS complete compressor/fan/box unit that was identical to what I had. He said he was not allowed to sell/install them on new installs because of the law regarding the old Freon. He was however able to sell it to me because he would be repairing an existing system.

There are a lot of systems out there that are not going to be replaced just because they have the old Freon. I bet you are OK. May have to find another service guy, but they should be able to make repairs.

LD1 · Nov 3, 2010

rjkobbeman said:
A year ago my AC went out. This was in a 10 year old -- "old" Freon -- unit. The compressor was shot.

The guy who installed it had NOS complete compressor/fan/box unit that was identical to what I had. He said he was not allowed to sell/install them on new installs because of the law regarding the old Freon. He was however able to sell it to me because he would be repairing an existing system.

There are a lot of systems out there that are not going to be replaced just because they have the old Freon. I bet you are OK. May have to find another service guy, but they should be able to make repairs.

Sounds like your service man is also a sales man for the company and is wanting you to install a new system if anything goes wrong, so he can earn his comission. Just because the rules have changed, doesn't mean you cant still get parts.

Same with car. You can still get new parts for old cars even though they dont meet current EPA standards.

brin · Nov 3, 2010

Thanks for the info. I won't panic then and if it breaks I will check with other HVAC repair folks and do my due diligence..Makes me feel better..

rjkobbeman said:
A year ago my AC went out. This was in a 10 year old -- "old" Freon -- unit. The compressor was shot.

The guy who installed it had NOS complete compressor/fan/box unit that was identical to what I had. He said he was not allowed to sell/install them on new installs because of the law regarding the old Freon. He was however able to sell it to me because he would be repairing an existing system.

There are a lot of systems out there that are not going to be replaced just because they have the old Freon. I bet you are OK. May have to find another service guy, but they should be able to make repairs.

I think you nailed it...I did not see him add the Freon he said it was down so I wonder if he even put it in and it is curious he would just bring up the fact that parts were not available...I think mine is under warranty for another 4 yrs. so they are stuck with me there but I sure wanted more than 10 yrs. out of a HVAC system ( 2 units ) that cost me $9K ...I think he was trolling for a sucker...You are right.

LD1 said:
Sounds like your service man is also a sales man for the company and is wanting you to install a new system if anything goes wrong, so he can earn his comission. Just because the rules have changed, doesn't mean you cant still get parts.

Same with car. You can still get new parts for old cars even though they dont meet current EPA standards.

Chuck52 · Nov 3, 2010

Brin,

My SIL is in HVAC. He's replacing my old air conditioner with a heat pump. He told me he might be able to sell the old unit because it was still in decent shape and there are customers for such used systems. He also saves useful components from systems he takes out. I doubt he's alone in doing that.

Chuck

slowzuki · Nov 3, 2010

Just so everyone is clear, it isn't freon in any of these systems now. Many can be converted to other refrigerants including non-regulated ones in some states.

As an example there is a refrigeration device on my property that was converted from R134a to propane/butane blend. Works perfectly. Not allowed in every state as the refrigerant manufacturers lobby to prevent people muscling in on their product.

"Use of highly purified propane as a refrigerant is gaining favor, especially in systems designed for R-22. Moreover, propane is non-toxic. An odorant, such as ethyl mercaptan, can be added in trace amounts to alert persons of system leaks."

GGB · Nov 3, 2010

Just read in the last day or two that there is a movement underway for an even newer refrigerant to replace R410a....

This is more than a little frustrating. Three years ago we replaced both the original units for our home which had the "old" freon since it was built in 1999. It just didn't make sense to dump more money into a system which was going to have to be replaced at some point anyway. It didn't make me very happy-you expect HVAC systems to last longer than that.

The new units theoretically would pay for themselves by virtue of being more efficient (I calculated about a 10 year payback, but probably more like 6-8 years with increasing costs of electricity). But no way will this work if I have to go through all this again because of the "next" new refrigerant.

I'm going to start paying a lot more attention to alternate methods of cooling-perhaps ground/water source since we have a nice pond about 10 yards from the back door. Three years ago, it just seemed way too expensive, but if the refrigerants keep changing, it just may be a better long term solution.

GGB

dex3361 · Nov 3, 2010

Your guy was not really up front with you. If a relay goes out you can repair it. If a blower motor or fan goes out you can repair or replace it. The issue would be if your compressor were to fail you would have to find a replacement for it. the 410A runs at a higher pressure. I bought a new 3 ton heat pump last year and installed it before the changes. The unit bought is rated for 410A if I have to install a new compressor in the future.