Haying for dummies

bdog · May 17, 2005

I plant wheat in the fall and haygrazer in the spring on my place. My neighbor bales it for $1/square bale. I can get about 200 bales per cutting or 400 a year total of my place. I can sell them for $4 each.

The baler is no problem, and I know it can run on my tractor.

He has a swather, which cuts and windrows the hay all in one operation. What do I need to be able to do this myself? A sickle mower and a hay rake? I only have 5 acres so I am looking for small scale cheap stuff. I figure the $400 I am paying him a year, if I could but the equipment for $2000 or less then after 5 years I would be making $$ plus having the fun of doing it myself.

Robert_in_NY · May 17, 2005

It is fun to bale your own hay and you CCM can help you out with what you need for a small scale operation.

Are you planning to buy a baler, cutter and rake for $2k? If so you might find you are going to put a lot of money into the equipment. You also have your fuel and twine to buy which for as few bales you are talking you should only need one bale of twine ($25 or so). Every little bit raises the overall price of things so it might take you longer then 5 years to see any return on your investment and that is figuring nothing major goes wrong with your equipment.

If you have a friend who knows haying equipment have him look things over with you as most of it is quite simple. The biggest thing is to make sure you get a decent baler and something you can get parts for rather easily as you don't want to wait a week or two for a part to come in if you hay is on the ground.

It is fun though and a small field is not that hard to do. Good luck to you and enjoy the equipment search (that is half the fun)

Wannafish · May 17, 2005

Especially with fuel prices the way they are, my suggestion...

Ask him if you can ride on the wagon and stack the bales. Even if he doesn't reduce the $1/bale price, it will still be cheaper for you than buying and fixing equipment to do it yourself...and you will have the "fun" of stacking them which, if you decided to "make hay" by yourself you will have to do anyway.
All the "fun" at none of the cost...or frustration. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
(Except for the Icy/Hot cream) /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Indydirtfarmer · May 17, 2005

We square bale about 4000 bales of straw, and maybe (in a good year) 7500 squares of hay. (The rest gets round baled)

To justify having a newer baler, I started taking on a few "custom baling jobs". One neighbor has about 10 acres he has me bale, so he can feed his horses. He has 2 teenage sons....

A couple years back, he offered, and I took him up on a plan that I've grown to like VERY MUCH...

We calculate his "charge" at $1.25 a bale, when I bale his hay (I cut, he rakes, I bale) His "tab" is paid at $5 an hour in labor (from him and his sons) when we put up straw.

He gets his hay done without putting out any money, I get good help come straw season, and his sons get the "experience" of working their tails off....

We all win in this deal.

slowzuki · May 17, 2005

First thing, forget the notion of making money! Once you've got that out of your head, go ahead and have fun haying!

You need a bit more land to be profitible. We are on 35 acres, pulling 1500 bales of hay, looking to pick up about another 50-100 acres of fields worked.

Break even point is highly variable depending on year, weather and equipment.

Wannafish · May 17, 2005

"We all win in this deal."

Except the sons! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Probably the best "experience" they will ever have...but don't tell them I said so... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

HayDR · May 17, 2005

bdog,
It can be done for $2,000 or less as far as a mower and rake and tedder but it will have to be used machinery.

"Haygrazer" and related Sorghum grass species such as "johnsongrass" can have toxic components in the fresh green forage. Nitrate poising is one problem you can have if have a dry season. Concerning dry or cured, "haygrazer" hay has shown no problems since there is no green forage in the bales. On the other hand, the "haygrazer" bales can have a lot of stemmy material in them that some cattle won't eat.

Sicklebar mowers can have problems cutting haygrazer. That leaves a disc or drum mower. Harvesting haygrazer with 1950's technology will not be fun it will be hard work. The problem with haygrazer is if it's a wet season it will get away from you. From strictly an economic standpoint it will be better for you to buy hay and or custom hire your hay out. If you really want to do your hay and not work yourself to death, purchase the best mower you can afford and a cheap functional rake. New drum mowers start just over $2,000. A used drum mower cost is 50%-60 of what a new one costs. Functional Used disc mowers range from $1,000-3,000.

nomad · May 17, 2005

What about an old kind of harvester; called rake reaper? See attachment. It is a combination of sickle bar mower and a rake. This is indeed fun.

DMF · May 18, 2005

We have a little over 24 acres but we are currently using less than half for hay at the moment. We have a mix of Orchard grass, Timothy and clover. Last year we got a little over 1,000 bales with two cuttings. I have a sweet deal with a retired man in town. He cuts, rakes and bales. He takes 60% of the hay and I get the remaining 40%. If I sell any of his bales for him, I pay him $1/bale. I generally get $3/bale and my customers pick it up off the field themselves. What the retaired man takes with him, I help load the wagon with him while his wife drives the tractor. He's happy and I'm happy. I am working at reclaiming more field area so production will go up over time. I'd like to do more of the "fun" stuff as well, but I have had enough experience at haying to know it ain't always "fun"! Besides, I'm sure I'll be forced into doing it myself someday when my friend gets too old to keep doing it.

BB_TX · May 19, 2005

Here is some good hay reading.

cowboydoc · May 19, 2005

I'm not sure where the fun of haying comes from? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Unless you like sweating your tail off in the 90 degree days with 90% humidity working like a dog putting bales, getting residue all over your sweaty body and itching for days on end, trying to put together equipment, new or old because it all breaks, without adequate parts or knowledge or a book. Trying to find parts. Busting your head, knuckles, back, etc getting it fixed. Watching the rain come and ruin your hay because you broke down and couldn't get fixed. Or not even breaking down and getting your hay ruined from the weather. Haying is tough all the way around.

I don't mean to sound sarcastic but there are alot funner and cheaper things to do than haying. And no offense but in 5 years if you buy used equipment you're probably going to have to buy more used equipment in 5 years. Either that or put alot of money into the equipment you have to keep it going.

Egon · May 19, 2005

The " Fun of Haying " comes when the haying seasons is over. One just gets cleaned up, all the rashes gone and the back is feeling better and -- Wahmo - everything has to be done in reverse.

Then comes the "Fun of Feeding Hay "

I do like the evening smell of fresh mown hay and did enjoy sitting on a horse pulled dump rake daydreaming. Playing in the haymow jumping down on fresh hay was fun too.

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

gabby · May 19, 2005

( I'm not sure where the fun of haying comes from? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Unless you like sweating your tail off in the 90 degree days with 90% humidity working like a dog putting bales, getting residue all over your sweaty body and itching for days on end, trying to put together equipment, new or old because it all breaks, without adequate parts or knowledge or a book. Trying to find parts. Busting your head, knuckles, back, etc getting it fixed. Watching the rain come and ruin your hay because you broke down and couldn't get fixed. Or not even breaking down and getting your hay ruined from the weather. Haying is tough all the way around.

I don't mean to sound sarcastic but there are alot funner and cheaper things to do than haying. And no offense but in 5 years if you buy used equipment you're probably going to have to buy more used equipment in 5 years. Either that or put alot of money into the equipment you have to keep it going. )

I'm with Cowboy. Been there, done that, ain't going back. I have 75 acres of good hay land and I now lease it all out and buy hay for my 90 mama cows and 20 horses. Costs me about $12,000 - $15,000 per year for hay, and it ain't my problem when the weather or the equipment doesn't cooperate. I buy good hay and it ain't cheap but I still come out ahead. Some of it is grown on my place but most of it is not. I'm free to go out and find the best hay on the market. It's pretty easy to judge hay quality by pulling some out of the bale and looking at and most of all by smelling it.
gabby

Robert_in_NY · May 19, 2005

It all depends on the person. Yeah, I agree there are some times when it isn't as much fun. But to be honest, I love working on the equipment and handling the hay. I want to make things easier still but it won't change things. Now when I get older that might change what I think is fun but hopefully I will have most of the hard labor out of my operation by then so it will still be fun. But working on the equipment each year to get ready for season is one of my favorite things.

But it sucks when the rain comes in early /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Indydirtfarmer · May 19, 2005

About 3 years ago, we decided to increase our hay production just enough to warrent buying a better line of equipment. We do quite a bit of square baled straw. I added around 40 acres of hay to what we already had. That made it economically feasable to buy a new round baler, a BETTER used square baler, and a new disc mower. I look at buying old almost worn out equipment as a terrible investment. By the time it starts to pay for itself, you have to replace it, or spend cubic dollars on repairs. New (or NEWER) equipment at least will be there long enough to make a few nickels... (IF you're lucky)

JoeinTX · May 20, 2005

Well, the hardships of haying could be said of just about any other endeavor one takes today. Equipment, weather, timing, etc....always a pain.

But, I will say that hay-making is one of the ag duties today that is still physical labor intesive..especially square bales.
The last two times I messed with hay, I suffered heat stroke. Of course, it was hot, mid-90s F,and we were working fast to get it all done. The first stroke was rather mild felt like a weak case of the flu. But, the second, boy....put me out of action for a day or two and I've never felt anything quite that bad since.

I'm one of the worst at thinking how much "fun" something will be....then only to have the continuous reality of the small things and details really mucking it up for you.

Indydirtfarmer · May 20, 2005

After being aggrivated numerous times when my "help" didn't show up, or was found out to be worthless, I decided to eliminate (as much as possible) the need for labor IN THE FIELD. (We still rely on hand labor putting hay/straw in the barn) I ran on to a Steffans accumulator at auction 3 years back. It bunches up 10 bales into a neat little square, then drops that behind the baler. A grapple on my loader tractor (96 hp 4020 Deere) picks up the 10 bales, and sets them directly on the wagon. No hand labor... I've been buying up wagons for the past few years. We have several machine sheds on the farm. I back the wagons in the sheds, and leave the hay or straw on them until it's sold, or we get enough help to unload. That requires a large investment in wagons, but I figure we've saved it back in NOT paying out labor cost.

I also, as previously mentioned, trade custom baling for a neighbor, in trade for him and his 2 sons helping me unload wagons.

The cost is still there.... But at the very least, it's predictable this way. AND, I get my hay in ON TIME.

kensfarm · May 20, 2005

"Watching the rain come and ruin your hay"

I saw a couple big alfalfa fields just cut on the way home from work yesterday evening.. it rained all last night.. still raining today.

Kiwibru · May 20, 2005

I agree with most of the previous postings about hard work. Our situation which is now more stable was born of the necessity to get good forage that was worth something. In my part of the country most of the folks who put up hay wait until after the Fourth of July to even consider cutting. So you can imagine the quality of hay that comes out of the balers. Nothing like buying dried straw with seed heads!
We finally got sick of throwing $ at someone elses idea of hay and took the plunge and got our own equipment. Being a small farm we researched for several years and then purchased the equipment we now have and this has worked out quite well. We control the harvest time, the quality and we work our butts off!
It has it's rewards. Just finished a first cutting of grass/clover/vetch haylage on May 13th. We cut, wilt, then bale with a Wolagri R500 round baler (100 lb. 2'X2.5') and within 24 hours wrap small round bales in stretch wrap. This year we dodged rain storms and rapidly growing grass that was just starting to boot but pulled it off with grand style. Our flock just loves the resulting product and we finally have great feed...no more August straw. The other folks in my area have been stuck in a paradigm that we refused to accept...so it can be done with small equipment and in a quality way!