Hard Water

[kenmac]

Wayne, If the product you are going to try out doesn't work out. Take a look at this product WaterBoss. I saw an advertisment on this brand water softner today. I don't have any personal experence with the electronic or magnet devices working or not so, I won't make a comment on the product. I have worked on some very large water boilers that use one or both ( magnet/ electronic devices) & they (the customers) say that they have good results over the very expensive chemicals used to treat water in their boilers.
I hope you get the results you are looking for, which ever product you choose to go with

 

[Egon]

Have you seen these products on High pressure boilers providing high pressure superheated steam [ say 2000psi ] ??

 

[ByronBob]

okay, at the risk of repeating myself:

I've tested 5 systems, and none of them, once more for the skeptical, none, zip zero nada, removed calcium carbonate or limestone in any form. Period.
If you're not removing the calcium carbonate and calcium sulfate, then you are not going to get the benefits of a true water softener. I'll "lay it out" as you asked.
171.1 ppm in, 171.1 ppm out.

If you've got some sort of proof, chemically, mechanically or otherwise that these systems can do those things, I'd be more than happy to review it.
My purpose was not to denigrate the decisions of others, it was to provide a clear, analytical comparison, which is what the original posts did.

The purpose of the emoticons was to hopefully make clear that I was smiling when I was trying to make a point. I had no intention or reason to be sarcastic, and I'm surprised that you took it that way. I read the post several times, trying to make sure that it came across as intended, which was to be helpful, precisely because there is so much misinformation out there.

Now, rather than get into some sort of argument or debate, I'm signing off with a

Seriously guys, do whatever you feel is best for yourselves,

anthony

I'm not a water engineer at all but your comments make sense to me. You need to have a chemical interaction to eliminate something you don't want.

 

[GaryM]

Wayne, If the product you are going to try out doesn't work out. Take a look at this product WaterBoss. I saw an advertisment on this brand water softner today. I don't have any personal experence with the electronic or magnet devices working or not so, I won't make a comment on the product. I have worked on some very large water boilers that use one or both ( magnet/ electronic devices) & they (the customers) say that they have good results over the very expensive chemicals used to treat water in their boilers.
I hope you get the results you are looking for, which ever product you choose to go with

I had a WaterBoss in my new home for about 4 years before it failed and flooded my utility room. It failed in the part of the cycle where it was filling the brine tank and washed all my salt down the drain while flooding the floor. I'm glad I was home when it happend, but it was still probably an hour or two before it was noticed.

I did not buy another one.

 

[RayH]

I'm not a water engineer at all but your comments make sense to me. You need to have a chemical interaction to eliminate something you don't want.

What he said does make sense but its redundant. No one here has stated that the magnets "remove" anything or even change the hardness of the water. As a matter of fact, I stated pretty much the same thing he did when I described how the magnets work.

I will quote myself:
"Something that needs to be understood is that the magnets dont take any of the "hardness" from the water. All they claim to do it change the molecular qualities of the iron, lyme or whatever is in your water, so that it doesnt stick to pipes and fixtures. What little bit Ive read and studied, it seems that the magnets break the molecules down so they dont clump together into scale. So they dont actually remove anything, they just change its properties so theres not as many problems with it."

Im not at all bothered that people are skeptical. Truth be told, I was, and still am to a point, but along with that, I can honestly say that they are working for me and compared to the issues my neighbors have had with hard water, I dont really have any trouble to speak of. I'll leave everyone to draw their own conclusions.

 

[Pushing_Tin]

Anybody have experience with the Kinetico or EcoWater systems? I need to buy a softener in the next few weeks before our new house is finished. We have two companies here in town.

http://www.ecowater.com/
Kinetico Home Water Systems - Water Softeners, Drinking Water Systems, Water Filters

 

[Hammy]

I purchased a Kinetico system and installed it myself. The thing that sold me was how efficient they are and they don't require electricity to run. They are metered by the amount of water used, as opposed to most of the others that regenerate at a set time regardless of how much water has been used.

 

[Pushing_Tin]

I purchased a Kinetico system and installed it myself. The thing that sold me was how efficient they are and they don't require electricity to run. They are metered by the amount of water used, as opposed to most of the others that regenerate at a set time regardless of how much water has been used.

How long have you had it? Any negatives with the system?

 

[turbo36]

Guys, I've seen stuff like for years and always sort of grimace.
Suffice it to say that I'm a a licensed engineer, who actuallly works for a water purufication/softening company, one of the largest in the world, and deal with this stuff every day. I'm not going to use this post as an endorsement for my company, but I'd like to clear up a few misconceptions.
First of all when people talk about "hard" water, they're usually referring to dissolved limestone. (There are other things too, such as various forms of iron but for this post we'll focus on the more common)
When limestone dissolves in your water (underground, then you pump it up) it becomes calcium carbonate and calcium and magnesium sulfate.
The calcium carbonate is the white grit that we're all familiar with. It's what ruins your family's water appliances. Faucets, shower heads, water heaters, and you'll see it in your ice dispenser tray if you've got one on your refrigerator door.
The calcium sulfate, however, behave completely differently because it reacts chemically with your soap products, and forms that soap scum you see on your bathtub walls. The problem is that you also leave it on your skin. That's what gives so many people dry skin. When people say "squeaky clean" they really don't understand that that is not clean. It's the grip that the scum leaves on your skin.

Now when you have a water softener, you REMOVE those compounds (actually you trade the ions of either sodium or potassium chloride for them when you backwash the softener) That's why with a properly functioning softener, you won't see that buildup in your appliances, and you'll actually feel like you CAN'T get the soap off. That's actually a good thing. What you're feeling are your own natural skin oils softening your skin. I know it drives some people nuts, because they swear the soap's not coming off, but trust me, it's not soap

Now, I've personally tested 5 differnt "magnetic" systems in our labs, just for fun, and I've noticed a few things. None of the systems that we tested worked, and NONE of them had seals of approval from the NSF or WQA (water quality association).
They don't claim to "soften the water". They claim, from what I've seen, to be able to magnetically " align" the domains in the calcium so that it doesn't stick to appliances. Well, that may be, but I doubt it, and if you guys who have them are seeing limestone deposits on your sinks and faucets, then that would seem to prove that they're not working.
Now, emprically, I have run TDS (total dissolved solids) tests on the water going into those systems, and the water coming out, and I can assure you, that it is exactly the same coming out as going in.
If the water was 10 grains (171.1ppm) going in, then it was still 10 grains coming out.
I'd like to point out, in fairness, that I've never cut open any piping to see if those systems are actually preventing buildup, so I can't say. If they are, the good and well, but they would still be better suited to say, an industrial application than a residential because if they're not REMOVING the calcium carbonate and especially the calcium sulfate, then you'll still have soap scum forming on your tubs, skin and hair, and your wife will probably have the same dry skin problems. In other words, they may be able to prevent buildup inside plumbing (I personally would like to see some sort of independent, licensed testing proving this, and an accurate engineering explanation of how), but they absolutely do NOT remove the compounds from the water as a standard Ion exchanging water softener will do.
About 15 years ago, I remember spending something like 30 bucks for a "magnetic fuel cracking" system that supposedly could increase fuel efficiency by some outrageous amount. That didn't work either. In fact, many of those companies have been investigated by AG's all over the US.
The phrase "buyer beware" comes to mind.

Sorry for the long post, and I certainly don't want to insult anyone's opinions or decisions, I just wanted to share my personal experiences and actual test findings. Hope it helps,

anthony

D*mn, I hate it when people use real science in their posts! Personally I found this very informative and believe it de-bunks the myth of the magnet systems but as the saying goes " there's a sucker born every minute".

Caveat emptor

 

[LMTC]

D*mn, I hate it when people use real science in their posts! Personally I found this very informative and believe it de-bunks the myth of the magnet systems but as the saying goes " there's a sucker born every minute".

Caveat emptor

Real helpful addition. Thanks.