Groundsmaster 52 runs 10 minutes, then dies

[dlapierre]

Tractor is a Toro Groundsmaster 52 with 16HP Briggs L head cast iron engine, 32000 series. Manufactured back in 1980. The problem is, it runs and cuts fine for approximately ten minutes, then dies. I can interrupt the dying by choking the engine and it comes back to life. But, only for a few seconds. Then it dies again. Choking again before it totally shuts down and it comes back to life. This is a rinse and repeat thing until I limp back to the garage with it. Let it sit for an hour or longer, and it starts up, runs fine and cuts grass for another ten minutes. Then the cycle repeats. Does this sound like a coil going bad? Or, due to the fact I can choke it back to running before it completely dies, is it a fuel issue?

I have replaced the fuel filter, cleaned the carburetor, replaced the fuel lines, replaced the fuel pump, and with no change from doing that, have pulled the fuel tank and cleaned it out as well. Still no change. Oh yeah, I replaced the condenser for good measure.

I was of the understanding that a faulty coil would shut the engine down once it was hot, but then would not restart at all until the engine was totally cooled down. Or, will a failing coil cause the engine to die, but allow it to come back to life by quickly choking it as described above? I am leaving the coil replacement as a last resort due to it requiring the entire engine to be pulled from the tractor in order to access it. The ten minutes having to elapse before the problem arises leads me to think it is a heat related issue, most likely the coil. Anybody here had a similar problem with a cast iron horizontal shaft briggs?

Vvm

 

[dlapierre]

Same thing happened to me and I did all the things suggested, including putting in a new fuel pump. But, the second time my son took the fuel tank off and checked the fuel valve on the tank closely, he found a small filter about the size of a narrow straw in diameter in the valve that was partially plugged. It let some fuel through, but not enough to sustain a draw from the fuel pump.

 

[Gem99ultra]

I too, think it's a fuel issue, possibly: wrong filter, filter installed backward, or collapsing fuel line. Just in case though, I'd probably get an inline spark checker handy and check for spark as soon as the engine quits running next time. My spark checker came from Harbor Freight and I love it. They're $3.99 and $4.99.

I think stuckmotor hit the nail right on its head. I've had the very same symptoms with my lawn mower after installing a new fuel filter in backwards.

Flip the filter around and see...

 

[Gord Baker]

You have done all the right things IMHO. Is there possibly a tiny screen in the carb at fuel line inlet?
Taking the load off the engine is puzzling too, since it then regains RPM. Doubtful you have a water problem. I would change needle and seat after a serious carb soak. Good Luck.

 

[hanie cole]

Are you able to run a temporary rubber fuel line to the carb from a gallon jug hung above the carb? This will tell you if the pulse pump is the culprit. I had an Argo with a B&S engine that had those same symptoms and found out the pump couldn't keep up after warm up. You could nurse it with the choke but it wouldn't have any power till you let it cool. Then it would run normally till it got hot again.

 

[kwbobwi]

I was told to never run E10or any ethanol blend in older equipment, I only run Premium in my power equipment including a 1970 rototiller.

 

[stuckmotor]

I think stuckmotor hit the nail right on its head. I've had the very same symptoms with my lawn mower after installing a new fuel filter in backwards.

Flip the filter around and see...

I had similar symptoms when I put a see through filter on a Snapper. When I replaced it with a tiny red original equipment filter, the problem went away. The Snapper has a gravity flow fuel system.
A YouTube mechanic explained that a fuel pump is required to pull fuel through some clear filters at a sufficient rate to keep the mower running. The OP's mower has a pump so I don't think it's problem has exactly the same cause as mine.

 

[Little Red Tractor]

Probably a long shot, but...is the carb tight to the engine? That could cause the same symptoms once it gets warm...and the symptoms would subside when it cools down. I had a motorcycle engine do this.

 

[JD4102004]

Tractor is a Toro Groundsmaster 52 with 16HP Briggs L head cast iron engine, 32000 series. Manufactured back in 1980. The problem is, it runs and cuts fine for approximately ten minutes, then dies. I can interrupt the dying by choking the engine and it comes back to life. But, only for a few seconds. Then it dies again. Choking again before it totally shuts down and it comes back to life. This is a rinse and repeat thing until I limp back to the garage with it. Let it sit for an hour or longer, and it starts up, runs fine and cuts grass for another ten minutes. Then the cycle repeats. Does this sound like a coil going bad? Or, due to the fact I can choke it back to running before it completely dies, is it a fuel issue?

I have replaced the fuel filter, cleaned the carburetor, replaced the fuel lines, replaced the fuel pump, and with no change from doing that, have pulled the fuel tank and cleaned it out as well. Still no change. Oh yeah, I replaced the condenser for good measure.

I was of the understanding that a faulty coil would shut the engine down once it was hot, but then would not restart at all until the engine was totally cooled down. Or, will a failing coil cause the engine to die, but allow it to come back to life by quickly choking it as described above? I am leaving the coil replacement as a last resort due to it requiring the entire engine to be pulled from the tractor in order to access it. The ten minutes having to elapse before the problem arises leads me to think it is a heat related issue, most likely the coil. Anybody here had a similar problem with a cast iron horizontal shaft briggs?

Vvm

I would be willing to betthe condenser is bad. I had exactly the same problem with an Onan on a Miller Welder 2 weeks ago. We tried all the things you did to no avail. Since I had seen this problem before I took the condenser and had it checked, sure enough it was bad. New condenser and going strong now.

 

[CADplans]

I was told to never run E10or any ethanol blend in older equipment, I only run Premium in my power equipment including a 1970 rototiller.

Premium fuel is just a waste of $$$$ in small engines, because the compression is too low to take advantage of the fuel.
Now, if the premium you are buying is ZERO ethanol, then, it is worth buying.

Some places only carry premium zero ethanol,, others sell 87 octane zero ethanol.

But,, 93 octane (or even 91 octane) is a waste unless the manual specifically says to use the higher octane.