Gravel drive help.

[wedge40]

I have 500-600ft gravel drive that is curvy and uphill from the road. Mind you I haven't put gravel down in about 6 years, but I have areas that get real soft in the spring time. Three or four inch ruts. I'm looking to prevent this. The area that's the worst in on a pretty good slope so I'm not sure what to do. I'm looking for suggestions. I have a backhoe now and was thinking of getting some drain tile and put that down the middle of the drive in that area to help drain the water away.

Wedge

 

[RonMar]

It is on a slope and you have standing water? Not having seen any pics of the situation, I would say that all that should be required is to re-grade it so any water that might collect can drain away down hill, either over the bank, or into a ditch on the uphill side of the road. The ditch of course needs to be clear and sloped such that the water can flow away from the soft area. Once this is done, the area should dry out and firm up. The addition of fresh gravel will help with this after it is graded. I like 3/4" crusher run with fines, for driveways as it packs real well and grooms easilly with a chain harrow drug behind truck or tractor. You can do this work with a box blade, but I prefer a 2 blade grader attachment(like a box scraper, but with a cutting blade up near the front).

I don't know where you are at, but if you have a lot of foliage that builds up on the roadway, this can lead to issues with drainage. As these leaves breakdown they form a slimy layer that helps trap water and slows drying. They also clog gravel and impede the flow of water to the ditches. Dragging the driveway after the leaves have decomposed breakes up and re-distributes the gravel and helps prevent this. Some issues that occasionally happen with hillsides are water seeps where the roadway intersects a localized water table and water oozes out of the ground. Having driven a lot of mountain roads, even this situation is usually handeled with proper grade and ditch orientation.

 

[Ken45101]

What kind of gravel do you have (round, or crushed limestone?), what size? What's underneath the gravel (what sort of soil)?

I had our driveway widened and the contractor brought in #4 limestone (that's up to 1-1/2"). Well, it just sunk into the mud. I had him bring in #2 (up to 2-1/2") and that was big enough to be stable. The soil here is yellow clay.

Ken

 

[MarkV]

I don't think you want to put drain tile down the middle of the road, you would be encouraging the road base to stay saturated and soft. Ditches and a crown on the road are the way to go. If your base has gotten soft enough to rut that deep some heavier base stone to build it up may be in order. We use #3 and top it with crusher run here or on a steep grade just a heavy layer of crusher run.

MarkV

 

[Ken45101]

Beware of quoting gravel size (e.g. #2, #3, #4) on a national/international forum without describing it. The numbers vary from area to area. I live in Ohio right next to Kentucky and get crushed limestone from both. Totally different grading systems, if I use Ohio terms in Kentucky they have no idea what I'm talking about.

Ken

 

[wedge40]

Last time I got gravel I got what is called 52's around here. I do live in the lime belt, so gravel is easy to get. 52's are about 1/2" with lots of limestone dust included. When it's dry is like cement, but in the spring it softens up pretty good on my driveway. I was told the last time that I should get what they call #3's next time.. I think they are 2-3 inches. I might have some of that brought in for the problem areas and then just lay another bed of gravel across the whole driveway.

Wedge

 

[SuperDuty335]

Surge stone or railroad ballast will hold up to whatever you drive over it. Every state should have very close specs. for railroad ballast.

 

[rambler]

Hard to help without seeing it, but wouldn't want tile down the middle.

You want a crown on top to drain water right to the side right away.

You want a ditch on both sides to carry the water along either side of the road.

Any low spots where water ools, you need the road built up higher, & you need tile crossing the road (a culver really) to get the water to carry away to the low side of the road.

Tile down the middle would either crush or be too deep to really do what you need done.

You didn't put your location, but some areas, like where I am, wet springs & deep frost & lots of snow melt on clay soils makes for a difficult week or 2 where the road just shouldn't be used, unless you can spend some serious bucks on building a real fancy roadbed with clay layers, compacting, and high shoulders & lots of gravel on top. Even township gravel roads here suffer from frost boils & rutting in a bad srping, and they are built to those standards....

--->Paul

 

[wedge40]

Hard to help without seeing it, but wouldn't want tile down the middle.

You want a crown on top to drain water right to the side right away.

You want a ditch on both sides to carry the water along either side of the road.

Any low spots where water ools, you need the road built up higher, & you need tile crossing the road (a culver really) to get the water to carry away to the low side of the road.

Tile down the middle would either crush or be too deep to really do what you need done.

You didn't put your location, but some areas, like where I am, wet springs & deep frost & lots of snow melt on clay soils makes for a difficult week or 2 where the road just shouldn't be used, unless you can spend some serious bucks on building a real fancy roadbed with clay layers, compacting, and high shoulders & lots of gravel on top. Even township gravel roads here suffer from frost boils & rutting in a bad srping, and they are built to those standards....

--->Paul

I will try and post a few photos sometime this week. I think I see the problem, but I wont say anything and wait to see what you guys say.
I live on top of a clay hill with deep ravings all around. I'm about 40 miles south of Indianapolis Indiana.

Wedge

 

[Ken45101]

I live on top of a clay hill with deep ravings all around. I'm about 40 miles south of Indianapolis Indiana.

Wedge,

sounds like what we have here in southern Ohio. Our driveway goes from the top of the hill to the bottom. A big rock base (2-3" limestone) 4" thick with smaller stuff on top has held up well, with drainage along the side.

My problem now is that the top foot of the hillside (the top soil), wants to slide off of the clay base during wet weather. But looking at the hillside, I suspect that's been going on for thousands of years and will continue long after I'm gone.

The big rock base with smaller stuff on top also worked well when we lived in the flatlands 30 miles north of here. Again, with drainage to the sides.

Ken

 

[forester2]

Put down geotexile road fabric first and it will save you gravel costs for years to come.

 

[weedsportpete]

I've put down geo-textile fabric last year on the first 100 feet of my driveway, and I've got some material on top of that and intend to put down crush run to top it off.

But I'm wondering about the rest of my driveway. I've got some gravel down already, but I can't say that there is a good base beneath it. Is there a way to save that existing gravel if I have to dig up everything that is there now, down far enough to put in a base and compact it? Is there such a thing as a large portable gravel sifter? or can I just put it all back on top of the fabric and allow rain to wash away the dirt and leave the gravel?

Pete

 

[radioman]

weedsport- take a gander over to this thread. A tbn'er built a motorized dirt sifter. perhaps this is what you ar elooking for ? http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/124659-motorized-dirt-soil-screening-machine.html
Also you not too far away from me, probably a hour drive east. Let me know if you need help. (disclaimer - I am no way an expert on driveway building or anything, but seat time is always fun )

 

[weedsportpete]

Thanks RadioMan! When I get the crush run delivery setup I'll let you know! But I'm thinking its not going to be a big job, just several hours grading and regrading. My neighbor has an old lawn roller thats sized about halfway between the plastic ones at Lowes and the smaller steamrollers - pretty heavy.. hopefully that will be good enough compaction.

I'm not capable of building that dirt sifter - looks great though - very useful.

Pete

 

[wedge40]

I have a high side and a low side. I would put the drainage/ditch along the low side only? Should I dig up the old base before putting down the larger stone?

Wedge

 

[Ken45101]

I have a high side and a low side. I would put the drainage/ditch along the low side only?

That depends on your situation. I my case I have a steep hillside draining down on the one side, running across the driveway and freezing (up to 4 inches of ice, tire chains required on the 4 wheeler to navigate the driveway!). I needed drainage ditches on the high side and a culvert further down to get the water under the driveway. I didn't need a ditch on the low side, there was a big hillside (mountain? LOL) there to drain everything.

If, on the other hand, you don't have drainage across the driveway and/or freezing, that's a different story.

Should I dig up the old base before putting down the larger stone?

IMO, that's a lot of work that won't acccomplish much if anything. I'd just put the larger stone on top of whats there. That's the way I did it when I had smaller stuff sinking into the clay.

Ken

 

[5030tinkerer]

I have a 24" or so ditch on the high side of my drive and only a 8" or so on the low side. A culvert runs under the drive at the point where the drive tended to get soft. Once the culvert was installed, the softness went away. One mistake made on mine was setting the ditch too close to the road. I don't know that the standard is, but I might just re-do that ditch this spring so that the deepest spot is a good 6' off the edge of the road.

I have the geotextile under the gravel and it is working great - the immediate neighbor didn't choose to use the geo and over just the two years that we have had these drives already has about $1000 more rock into his drive than I do.

The thing to remember, though, is that you have to have a thick enough base on top of that fabric to prevent ripping it up (don't ask how I know) during snow removal.

 

[Ken45101]

I don't know that the standard is, but I might just re-do that ditch this spring so that the deepest spot is a good 6' off the edge of the road.

Obviously you are in the flatlands Six feet off my driveway would mean cutting down through as much as ten vertical feet of dirt and rock. I wish I could cut back that far!

Here is a photo of the driveway when we bought the place. Since then we had a contractor with a big excavator cut the hillside back and widen the driveway enough to get a ditch in alongside it but I can only dream of cutting it back far enough to have an idea setup.

Ken

 

[varmint]

This sounds familar! We have about 700' of pretty straight but sloped (8%?) lane thru trees and brush... always a problem with rain washing out... Can't afford paving, so we finally made some progress by having it regraded (wider, with some ditching on the sides) and 4 angled bumps to divert the wash off to the sides... crusher run base, over many years of stone and gravel base, with a top layer (rolled) of ground up asphalt paving material. It would have been best to lay it while it was still warm out, or hot, even, so it can "bind" but we didn't have that option- late November... still, it is holding up well. I plan on having a top coat laid next summer. Now, if I just had some skid shoes for my rear blade...

 

[5030tinkerer]

A friend told me about the ground up asphalt paving in lieu of limestone. I may have to try that out since it seems like a way to get the asphalt drive without the cost. Has anyone had good luck doing that?