Grapple Grapple Installation – WR Long on JD5420 542FEL

[GaryBDavis]

The grapple weighs 665 pounds. My FEL is rated at 3300 pounds breakout and 2500 pounds at full lift height. The grapple probably doesn't weigh much more than the stock bucket. So, I think I'll have roughly the same net lift capacity.

As for stability, it doesn't feel any less stable than when I have the bucket on. My FEL, like most tractors, has enough forces to lift the rear tires off the ground. The same safety rules will apply whether I'm using the grapple or a bucket.

 

[kennyd]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( 1savoy whe're presently using one of the electric divertors form Surplus Center at less than 150 bucks. )</font>

Have you priced it in the new catalog yet? The price went up about $50.00 or so buckaroos /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif.... I guess the recent interest caused them to raise the price. I sure glad we bought ours when we did!

 

[1savoy]

PineRidge,

Thanks for the message. I am thinking about using a solenoid valve instead of a diverter valve. I do not have any experience with them, but thought if I have to plumb something in, I might as well use a solenoid valve and be able to use all the circuits at the same time, as much as possible at least. Surplus Center has a Gresen closed center solenoid valve (closed center for my old JD) for $179.99. This one does not need the subplate, but the subplate models do have some advantages.

GaryBDavis,

Can you tell us if you like the solenoid valve. It sounds as though you do in the earlier posts.

Thanks Guys,
Russ

 

[PineRidge]

Ouch, yer right Kenny they did shoot up 50 bucks. And they have but 32 left from the count of 96 when I ordered mine electric diverter

1savoy there may be a problem in communication terms. I did use an electric diverter valve as shown in the above link and powered it up using a latching solenoid valve.

After using the grapple out in the field I am seriously considering losing the latching solenoid and just powering up the grapple using a simple SPST 12 volt DC relay.

While working and concentrating on bucket and grapple positions it's too easy to forget if the grapple circuit is powered up or not. If the circuit was powered whenever the joystick button was depressed I'm thinking it would take all the thought process out of the equation and make the grapple open/close second nature. Ease of use is what I'm aiming at anyway. When I change it I'll keep you all informed how it performs.

 

[GaryBDavis]

The Hyvair valve looks pretty well made compared to some of the other brand hydraulic components I’ve worked with. Whatever brand and type of valve you get, check to see if replacement parts are available should you need to replace a seal or solenoid.

As for the configuration of the Hyvair valve, I like having the grapple valve in a “non-active” state when I’m not using it. That meaning all the valves are in their “resting” position and no electrical components are engaged. I pull the trigger, a solenoid fires up, the valves open and the grapple closes. I release the trigger and everything goes back to it its resting state. Push the thumb button, the other solenoid fires up, the valves open and the grapple closes. Release and you are back to a non-active state.

While this type of valve lets you raise/lower/curl the FEL at the same time as opening/closing the grapple, you will have to share the hydraulic pressure between the two functions. So, the functionality is somewhat limited when doing both of them at once.

Note that some diverter valves have two solenoids and one of them has to be active at all times to get a “normal” flow. Realize that for a solenoid to be constantly energized, the coil has to be rated for a 100% duty cycle. Something to check into if you are using this type of diverter valve.

One last note on sub-plates. All valves have sub-plates. For some they are built in and for others, like the Hyvair, they are separate because they have different styles to choose from. You mix and match the valve/sub-plate configuration to get what works best in your application.

 

[1savoy]

Gary,

Thanks for all that good information. Sounds as though you are happy with the operation of your valve.

PineRidge,

I think as you mentioned our communication of terms is mixed up. My understanding, which may be wrong, is that the solenoid valves (electro-hydaulic valve I think is what Gary referred to them as) is basically a solenoid operated control valve, where as what I think you are using is a solenoid operated diverter or selector/multiplier valve. The difference is the solenoid valve can be used independently of your other valves with the push of a button/buttons. The diverter valve requires the push of a button/buttons, then the movement of the hydraulic function/joystick you tapped the diverter valve into. Hope this makes sense. Let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Russ

 

[PineRidge]

Sorry Russ but when you said solenoid my mind raced back to the latching solenoid that I used to power up my grapple not the diverter valve itself.

I'm thinking besides for the difference in pricing that there aren't a lot of practical differences between Gary's valve and mine. While it is true that Gary has limited movement of all functions at once for any grapple to be effective to say pick up a log full hydraulic pressure needs to be applied to the grapple cylinder.

When I'm opening or closing the grapple I'm always working with full system pressure although it's easy to slow the cylinder travel with the use of the joystick. When I use my grapple I temporally give up the curl function until I release the grapple button and it is then regained. Sounds like it's all about trade offs.

A perfect scenario would be full function of all controls at full system pressure but I don't think that's possible. At least not in our budgets anyway.

 

[1savoy]

PineRidge,

Thanks again. It sounds as though either valve option would work fine. I have to decide which way to go. The last option I have thought about is to replace my 2 spool valve with a Prince 3 spool sectional and have the third valve as a solenoid operated valve. It looks like the cost of that style section is about $210.00. It looks like I do not need a pressure build up valve in the outlet section for a closed center valve. I would have to talk to Prince as they require a utility section for their 20 series valve, but I am not sure if it is needed for their SV series. I guess if I were smart I would just install a separate manual valve, but it sure seems like it would be nice to have all functions on one joystick. Sorry for the long posts and I did not mean to hijack your thread Gary. By the way, the grapple and tractor look awesome. I would love to replace my old beast with a 5000 series JD. I'll keep saving those pennies. Thanks again guys.

Russ

 

[jinman]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( It’s thick and heavy on the bottom where I need the strength to rip stuff out of the ground and the teeth are made from hardened steel wear blades. But, it has a large bite (70 inches in the open position) which is what you need to grab a large pile of brush. )</font>

Gary, that is a really great looking tool. What are the specific uses of the grapple. Will you be clearing underbrush and roots most of the time. Any mesquite? That 5420 is a real powerhouse. You should be able to get an incredible amount of work done with the efficiency that grapple will give you.

You mentioned the grapple is about 70" tall when fully open. How far can you tilt it over? Will it lay flat (face down) on the ground when the FEL curl is in the full dump position, or do the bottom tines rotate up and stop against the FEL arms? You will be able to gather up giant "fist-fulls" of brush with that beast. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[GaryBDavis]

Jim,
I’ll be using the grapple to pile up cedar trees that we are having sheared, stack up brush piles for burning and to help clean out some old fences that need rebuilding. I do need to stack up some mesquite trees that we sprayed a few years ago. They’re all dead now but real ugly too.

The grapple will tilt all the way over and face down. When they install the John Deere QA, they extend the lower pins out so you have the same tilt capabilities as on the factory bucket. That’s one thing I checked into before I ordered it. WR Long has pictures of their grapple mounted on a tractor and in different positions on their web site.

Russ,
I also looked into replacing my dual mid SCV with a triple, but went with a third valve to keep the tractor as stock as possible. Either way probably would have been good. Prince makes some good valves. I’ve used them on my log splitter. Even though I have an independent third valve, everything is built into the joystick controller. The joystick operates the FEL as it normally does and I use a trigger switch to close the grapple and a thumb switch to open it. Both switches are integrated in to the control grip which mounts on the stock joystick.