grapple bucket installation
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tom30519
Silver Member
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- Dec 22, 2005
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- 107
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- Southeast Quebec
- Tractor
- JD 4520, IH B414D (1966), Kubota B1750HST
Power beyond is a direct connection to the hydraulic system, to hook up attachments that have their own control valves. If you are getting the 448 backhoe, it requires the power beyond option. In JD's setup, they install a loopthrough connection where the dual SCV manifold would normally feed the 3PH control valve. To hook up the 448 you disconnect this short loop, connect the BH's input in it's place, and connect the BH's output to a third (normally unused) connection that goes directly to the hydraulic sump. Note that the 3PH will no longer work (no pressure), but it has been removed to put on the backhoe anyway...
I use the 3rd SCV control to run my 4-in-1 bucket, similar to a grapple. I opted for the JD "third hydraulic option" on my 400CX loader, which has metal tubing properly installed, provides the quick-connects for removing the loader, and runs hoses back to the rear of the tractor, where the 3rd SCV outlets are, on the same bracket as the power beyond, actually.
I find that this setup works very well, for me. I prefer having the joystick always controlling the loader, and don't mind moving my hand down slightly to work the bucket control. One less switch and set of electric solenoids to go wrong, too.
Tom.
I use the 3rd SCV control to run my 4-in-1 bucket, similar to a grapple. I opted for the JD "third hydraulic option" on my 400CX loader, which has metal tubing properly installed, provides the quick-connects for removing the loader, and runs hoses back to the rear of the tractor, where the 3rd SCV outlets are, on the same bracket as the power beyond, actually.
I find that this setup works very well, for me. I prefer having the joystick always controlling the loader, and don't mind moving my hand down slightly to work the bucket control. One less switch and set of electric solenoids to go wrong, too.
Tom.
jtfx6552
Bronze Member
I believe JD sells a kit to do this, i was quoted $291.00 for the "Third Line and hose kit".
I've been gong back and forth on this issue myself.
I think a switch on the existing joystick would be good, easier than reaching down to third control lever.
i am trying to decide if the switch should be a momentary operating a six way selector valve, or a 3 postiton switch operating a third spool off the power beyond port.
Both have minor advantages over the other.
The momentary/selector valve would allow one axis of the existing joystick to open and close the grapple with good control as the joystick would meter just like it dees when controlling the FEL. I guess some sort of pilot opertaed check or counterbalnce valve could be plumbed to the cylinder so that it would "lock" the closing pressure in the grapple cylinder when the momentary button is released.
A seperate spool with a bang bang sol valve off the power beyond would work nice too, and would allow holding pump pressure on the grapple while using the other two functions of the FEL. This would generate a little heat in the hyd oil since you'd be going over relief while holding pressure on the grapple cyl. Of course this setup could also be used with PO checks or CB valves as well.
I am wondering how the valve is set up on my 4120. i have the third SCV, but i don't know how JD handles power beyond. Is the port on the valve? Typically on a "convertable" valve, a plug or sleeve is removed (or added) to convert to power beyond. Anyone know for sure?
JT
I've been gong back and forth on this issue myself.
I think a switch on the existing joystick would be good, easier than reaching down to third control lever.
i am trying to decide if the switch should be a momentary operating a six way selector valve, or a 3 postiton switch operating a third spool off the power beyond port.
Both have minor advantages over the other.
The momentary/selector valve would allow one axis of the existing joystick to open and close the grapple with good control as the joystick would meter just like it dees when controlling the FEL. I guess some sort of pilot opertaed check or counterbalnce valve could be plumbed to the cylinder so that it would "lock" the closing pressure in the grapple cylinder when the momentary button is released.
A seperate spool with a bang bang sol valve off the power beyond would work nice too, and would allow holding pump pressure on the grapple while using the other two functions of the FEL. This would generate a little heat in the hyd oil since you'd be going over relief while holding pressure on the grapple cyl. Of course this setup could also be used with PO checks or CB valves as well.
I am wondering how the valve is set up on my 4120. i have the third SCV, but i don't know how JD handles power beyond. Is the port on the valve? Typically on a "convertable" valve, a plug or sleeve is removed (or added) to convert to power beyond. Anyone know for sure?
JT
tom30519
Silver Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2005
- Messages
- 107
- Location
- Southeast Quebec
- Tractor
- JD 4520, IH B414D (1966), Kubota B1750HST
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I am wondering how the valve is set up on my 4120. i have the third SCV, [...] Anyone know for sure?)</font>
Yep. I have the JD tech manual (on CD) for the Twenty series, and they have several schematics and clear explanations of the hydraulic system.
The outlet port on the 3SCV normally is connected to the input of the 3PH control valves. For Power Beyond, they break that connection and bring it out to the back of the tractor, where there is a short loop-through hose with a quick-connect feeding back into the 3PH. From there it drains into the sump.
The backhoe takes it's hydraulic feed from the PB output, but doesn't feed back into the 3PH. Instead, it flows directly to the sump through a third, normally unused, quick connect.
Was that what you wanted to know?
Tom.
Yep. I have the JD tech manual (on CD) for the Twenty series, and they have several schematics and clear explanations of the hydraulic system.
The outlet port on the 3SCV normally is connected to the input of the 3PH control valves. For Power Beyond, they break that connection and bring it out to the back of the tractor, where there is a short loop-through hose with a quick-connect feeding back into the 3PH. From there it drains into the sump.
The backhoe takes it's hydraulic feed from the PB output, but doesn't feed back into the 3PH. Instead, it flows directly to the sump through a third, normally unused, quick connect.
Was that what you wanted to know?
Tom.
I understand that the 3 point hitch is removed when the hoe is installed? I like my 3 point hitch, is it easy to hook back up if the hoe is removed. I have heard that the hoe is pretty easy to remove. any insight on this?
tom30519
Silver Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2005
- Messages
- 107
- Location
- Southeast Quebec
- Tractor
- JD 4520, IH B414D (1966), Kubota B1750HST
The 3 point hitch comes off and goes back on in a few minutes. Only the two arms (drag links), plus the vertical lift links, have to come off, and they are attached with locking pins.
The reason the hitch must be removed is that the backhoe gets lifted onto the tractor using the rock shaft, which are the two short arms sticking out of the top of the transmission, the ones that do the actual lifting. The hoe is mounted nice and close to the tractor which makes for a very tight coupling, but this also means that the 3 point hitch would be in the way.
In fact, removing or reinstalling the 3 point hitch hardware is probably the longest part of putting on the backhoe! But we're talking just a few minutes here. It really is an impressive bit of engineering on JD's part.
Tom.
The reason the hitch must be removed is that the backhoe gets lifted onto the tractor using the rock shaft, which are the two short arms sticking out of the top of the transmission, the ones that do the actual lifting. The hoe is mounted nice and close to the tractor which makes for a very tight coupling, but this also means that the 3 point hitch would be in the way.
In fact, removing or reinstalling the 3 point hitch hardware is probably the longest part of putting on the backhoe! But we're talking just a few minutes here. It really is an impressive bit of engineering on JD's part.
Tom.
psj45703006
New member
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- Jul 3, 2009
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- 16
OK I am now writing this because you have said exactly what i have thaught about my 4300 I was going to buy this kit tomorow 3rd scv kit, but I feel there has to be something better, right? So my thought has been buy the cable and its brackets ect. then find a lever of some sort ( my main hurtle) hook it all on my joystick and and there you have it. as far as the plumbing go soft or hard lines from the 3 valve run them with the exsisting bucket lines to two quick disconnects at the bucket. feed back where did you wind up.
